Uneven Re-gen Braking Feel on P3D+

[Punjabi510]

Hi all,

I saw a recent post on "braking feel of the Model 3" and this is a bit on the other side of braking on the Model 3, the re-gen braking. I had two very different cars before my P3D+, a 335i and an eGolf.

The regen braking on the eGolf was predictable, you could predict where it would roughly stop as the braking was linear-ish. Mileage driven by me on this car was roughly 25k.

Even on the 335i, using it's engine braking (slowing the car down via just low gearing) it was very predictable and I could mostly get it to slow down (not completely stop) based on traffic/lights. Mileage driven by me on this car was roughly 130k (a lot of experience).

The P3D+ has an uneven feel on the re-gen braking towards the end to the point where I usually have to feather the throttle to make it stop where I want it to or the opposite of where it won't stop and I have to use the normal brakes. It feels more exponential towards the end and that is where it get's unpredictable. It is very predictable and even in the beginning phases, just at the lower speeds is where I have an issue.
I've had the P3D+ for about 6 months now and I've put 6700ish miles on it, so I don't think it's a lack of experience anymore and more of a drawback of the car. Don't get me wrong, I love the car (please don't crucify me), but this is a bit of a nuisance and I'm very particular about driving dynamics coming from the 335i (absolutely amazing car, but maintenance sucked and the eGolf was a commuter car to deal with traffic in the Bay Area).

Has anyone else had this experience or maybe it's just me and I need more experience with the car?

 

[jeffpaul]

I'm coming from a 2017 model S here (just purchased a new Model 3 performance), but I've owned a BMW Mini-E, BMW ActiveE, BMW i3. I think the last bit of unpredictable regen you're referring to might be coming from one of the settings. I'm sure someone else will chime in here with the exact name of it, but there is a setting where you can have the car come to a complete stop when you have your foot off the brake. I tried this setting in my friend's model S (only new model S cars have this) and it seems like this is what you might be talking about.

 

[SleeperService]

I'm coming from a 2017 model S here (just purchased a new Model 3 performance), but I've owned a BMW Mini-E, BMW ActiveE, BMW i3. I think the last bit of unpredictable regen you're referring to might be coming from one of the settings. I'm sure someone else will chime in here with the exact name of it, but there is a setting where you can have the car come to a complete stop when you have your foot off the brake. I tried this setting in my friend's model S (only new model S cars have this) and it seems like this is what you might be talking about.

It's the one pedal driving. I'm not sure if it starts using the friction brakes or if it actually USES some battery power to bring the car to a halt. I actually really like it, once you get used to it (on a warm battery car..more on that in a second) you can basically do exactly what you were saying and "feather" the throttle to have the car come to a stop exactly where you want without ever touching the brake pedal.

On a warm battery vs. a cold battery: you are in the Bay area, so your temperature swings aren't as wide as they are here in the midwest, but it does get fairly cool there, and I'm betting you've seen the "dots" on the regen side of your power meter, right? Regen becomes less and less strong as the battery is colder, so the car may drive differently in the morning (warm from being plugged in in a garage) to the afternoon (cold from sitting outside unplugged in a stiff breeze/colder temperatures). That might explain your consistency issues..

 

[Punjabi510]

It's the one pedal driving. I'm not sure if it starts using the friction brakes or if it actually USES some battery power to bring the car to a halt. I actually really like it, once you get used to it (on a warm battery car..more on that in a second) you can basically do exactly what you were saying and "feather" the throttle to have the car come to a stop exactly where you want without ever touching the brake pedal.

On a warm battery vs. a cold battery: you are in the Bay area, so your temperature swings aren't as wide as they are here in the midwest, but it does get fairly cool there, and I'm betting you've seen the "dots" on the regen side of your power meter, right? Regen becomes less and less strong as the battery is colder, so the car may drive differently in the morning (warm from being plugged in in a garage) to the afternoon (cold from sitting outside unplugged in a stiff breeze/colder temperatures). That might explain your consistency issues..

My goal is to not have to feather the throttle. The one pedal driving I'm very use to coming from the eGolf (not exactly 1 pedal as you have to hit the brakes to make it stay in place). It's just the last bit of the re-gen that always trips me up, either I have too much velocity and overshoot or I have too little and have to slowly get it there. I'm also aware of the dots, but that is not what I'm referring to here.

I think I just need more time with the car to learn it better and I'm just over thinking it at this point.

 

[M_D129]

My goal is to not have to feather the throttle. The one pedal driving I'm very use to coming from the eGolf (not exactly 1 pedal as you have to hit the brakes to make it stay in place). It's just the last bit of the re-gen that always trips me up, either I have too much velocity and overshoot or I have too little and have to slowly get it there. I'm also aware of the dots, but that is not what I'm referring to here.

I think I just need more time with the car to learn it better and I'm just over thinking it at this point.

I find it’s more of riding the accelerator, and easing to a stop. I personally have very predictable results, when I ease into the regen and up to the stop.

I understand you don’t want to have to feather a pedal, but it’s more gently easing off the accelerator than it is removing your foot altogether.

 

[zhu-]

What's your driving mode set to? The one for Creep, Roll, Hold. I've been on Hold since it came out and I like it a lot. It definitely has a more immediate stopping feel at low speeds though I'm not sure if it's more powerful regen or the system transitioning in physical brakes. Either way, this mode has always felt consistent to me. I've had my car for about 20 months now but recall the whole first year took some getting used to.

 

[Pkmmte]

I recently upgraded to a P3D-, coming from a LR RWD Model 3. I've been thinking how inconsistent the Regen feels too! It sometimes feels too weak even when 80% charged, compared to my old single motor Model 3.

 

[Punjabi510]

My settings are as follows:
Acceleration: Sport
Steering: Sport
Driving Mode: Hold (have had it this way since I got it)

I think I just need to get used to it. I’ve gotten used to the acceleration now, but it took a few months.

 

[Matsayz]

Correct me if I’m wrong but Tesla’s regen is completely separate from the brakes unlike VW & Toyota who blend the regen in with the braking system. It’s a common “complaint” when switching from the latter to the former and takes some getting used to.

Like SleeperService said, yes you will have to feather the accelerator to where you want to stop. Also what level of regen do you have the car set to?

Another fun part will be is the car affecting full regen or is it limited (the dots on the left). You’re in Southern California so your battery should generally be warm most of the year giving you full regen capability after a bit of driving.

Maybe watch some YouTube videos on it or drive the car hard for a bit to get more of a feel for it. You’ve had quite the variety in vehicles before landing on the P3D

 

[BuggDDS]

I like to do little “challenges” to see how close I can stop at the right place by taking my foot off the accelerator and not touching it again until the car stops. Sort of judging the distance to stop, speed traveling, and timing on when to let off the pedal....if I can tell if I’ll be short or long, then I’ll push the accelerator or slam on the brakes!

 

[zhu-]

Correct me if I’m wrong but Tesla’s regen is completely separate from the brakes unlike VW & Toyota who blend the regen in with the braking system.

From what I understand, the Hold driving mode is the only setting where the brakes are blended into regen but only at low speeds of around 5mph down to 0. There's no blending any other time or in any other mode.

 

[Piblokto]

OP, I experience the same thing. I have ~ 10k miles on my LR AWD, and sometimes the regen braking is “there” and fairly predictable, and other times it is weaker than expected. I have also had to occasionally feather throttle to travel further and stop where I wanted, but I often attribute that to me letting regen start too early. I’ve had the car in HOLD mode since that became available shortly after I bought the car. Love the car, regen braking, and one-pedal driving, but yes it hasn’t been totally predictable.

 

[Punjabi510]

Correct me if I’m wrong but Tesla’s regen is completely separate from the brakes unlike VW & Toyota who blend the regen in with the braking system. It’s a common “complaint” when switching from the latter to the former and takes some getting used to.

Like SleeperService said, yes you will have to feather the accelerator to where you want to stop. Also what level of regen do you have the car set to?

Another fun part will be is the car affecting full regen or is it limited (the dots on the left). You’re in Southern California so your battery should generally be warm most of the year giving you full regen capability after a bit of driving.

Maybe watch some YouTube videos on it or drive the car hard for a bit to get more of a feel for it. You’ve had quite the variety in vehicles before landing on the P3D

Regen setting is set to standard. I don't think the eGolf combined regen and normal braking from what I could tell, but I could be wrong.
I have driven it hard through canyons and the regen works like a charm there. It's like the last few mph when it has the unevenness.

From what I understand, the Hold driving mode is the only setting where the brakes are blended into regen but only at low speeds of around 5mph down to 0. There's no blending any other time or in any other mode.

Zhu-, I think that might be it. The additional braking force from blending might be what causes the unevenness as now it has more braking power and thus the change from the predictable regen braking on it's own.

BTW, appreciate all the insights on this. Learning more about my car with this discussion.

 

[SammichLover]

From what I understand, the Hold driving mode is the only setting where the brakes are blended into regen but only at low speeds of around 5mph down to 0. There's no blending any other time or in any other mode.

Are the friction brakes actually used for that, before it hits 0 and engages the parking brakes (AKA rear calipers)? I assumed it was purely motor retarding the speed, that's what it feels like.

 

[tjkenny15]

I agree OP - I like the Regen on my wife Bolt MUCH better than my PM3. Its definitely not as predictable. I'm hoping Tesla will tweak it a bit in a software update. FYI - I have played around with the re-gen settings. I think the 2nd gen Leaf has better re-gen too.

 

[SammichLover]

I agree OP - I like the Regen on my wife Bolt MUCH better than my PM3. Its definitely not as predictable. I'm hoping Tesla will tweak it a bit in a software update. FYI - I have played around with the re-gen settings. I think the 2nd gen Leaf has better re-gen too.

I don't know about the P, maybe there's something different going on there compared to the D, but since the addition of Hold mode I don't miss the Bolt anymore at all. The abruptness of it coming on after an accelerator foot lift feels very unpolished compared to the AWD.

 

[Matsayz]

Are the friction brakes actually used for that, before it hits 0 and engages the parking brakes (AKA rear calipers)? I assumed it was purely motor retarding the speed, that's what it feels like.

I agree with you that it feels like it's all motor until full stop then the brake pedal actually moves to hold the vehicle in place. I don't think there's an friction based braking until full stop for the hold. I will admit it takes some getting used to where the vehicle will roll to a stop using regen and sometimes I come in too hot and need to use the brakes because I'm going to overshoot the stop line. I think the amount of available regen is what you need to get used to and how much it brings the vehicle to a stop.



I thought "everyone" was super impressed with Tesla's regen compared to the others out there. I haven't driven these other EV's so I couldn't give an opinion on their regen compared to Tesla.

 

[tjkenny15]

I don't know about the P, maybe there's something different going on there compared to the D, but since the addition of Hold mode I don't miss the Bolt anymore at all. The abruptness of it coming on after an accelerator foot lift feels very unpolished compared to the AWD.

Interesting, I don't feel the same. I think the Bolt is super forgiving and not abrupt at all. The Bolt also has hold mode when in Low, which is great for around town.

 

[SammichLover]

I thought "everyone" was super impressed with Tesla's regen compared to the others out there. I haven't driven these other EV's so I couldn't give an opinion on their regen compared to Tesla.

Until the Hold feature was added it wasn't at all clear vs the Bolt. The Bolt, when in "L" (vs "D", anachronistic labeling on the console shifter) will use the motor to come to a full stop (as long as the hill you're on isn't too steep). It is almost exactly the same amount of regen braking as the AWD Model 3 (probably more than the RWD).

The Bolt still has the whammy bar (paddle on the left backside of the steering wheel) that lets you bump up the regen kW about 20% (I forget the exact number) so it is a little easier to nail stops with no brake pedal. Unfortunately for safety reasons you should still put your foot on the brake pedal after stopping because it is not like the Tesla, it doesn't actually lock the vehicle in place.

 

[SammichLover]

I think the Bolt is super forgiving and not abrupt at all. The Bolt also has hold mode when in Low, which is great for around town.

I only drive in "L". "D" is, well, "WTF where's my regen?"

"L" is decidedly more harsh engaging than the Model 3. Absolutely no subjectiveness wiggle room there.