Unfortunate fatality in Model 3

[Oldschool496]

The person driving this Model 3 was someone I knew. We were out of touch long enough I never knew he owned a Model 3. He too misunderstood the true use of AP and it cost him his life. Now his family is suing Tesla, their attorneys maintaining that AP was faulty in his car. I highly doubt it. He engaged it on a highway with intersections and a semi-truck crossed his path. It was engaged for 10 seconds prior to the accident. This was avoidable with some understanding of AP.

He was most likely distracted in my Opinion. Rest in peace Jeremy Banner.

 

[kkillebrew]

There are tragic stories no doubt, but I truly believe all of Tesla's safety measures save lives statistically and obviously, it is the reason I bought mine. But even with the latest and greatest my car will still accelerate into anything if the accelerator is pressed and warnings ignored. There is ample warning given to drivers in this area. People have been killed by seatbelts too... did the manufacturers get sued? Did all the nay sayers say get rid of seat belts? Probably.

 

[Oldschool496]

There are tragic stories no doubt, but I truly believe all of Tesla's safety measures save lives statistically and obviously, it is the reason I bought mine. But even with the latest and greatest my car will still accelerate into anything if the accelerator is pressed and warnings ignored. There is ample warning given to drivers in this area. People have been killed by seatbelts too... did the manufacturers get sued? Did all the nay sayers say get rid of seat belts? Probably.

Well Seatbelts and AP usage are two different things, while I'm not saying AP is not great, I use it, I love it, and when its not there in another car, I'm tired already. I like to think I understand it better for sure then the moment I bought the car. I bought my car because its electric, the safety systems are almost entirely inherent in other cars not electric.

Seat belts leave the user attached to car most of the time. Where AP is an assistive device to safe or un-safe driving like cruise control.

What I am saying is seatbelts don't require special knowledge of its limitations(you'll find out any limitation after an accident),
where AP requires innate knowledge of its attributes as well as its inability to handle some things many might think it should handle- perhaps its shortcomings misunderstood by the lay person leading one into false hope it will react if you don't.

Like stopped Fire engines on highways or Semi's crossing your path.

Any one life is too many for any system to give up for its usage. What a shame.

 

[Cuttin]

I use AP in my MX all the time.
Like seriously 95% of my commute.
About 3-4k miles each month. All types of roads. All types of weather. I know it's limitations and on new roads. Or bad weather I pay special attention.

However, sadly, on my routine drives and roads I do kinda space out. But I think I usually look at the road at least every few seconds. Should give me enough time to pick up a fully stopped vehicle. I hope.

Now I'm getting a bit nervous. I think this is the FOURTH fire truck that a tesla hit. There was one that the chick broke her ankle. Another one in Russia and a third one awhile back. No fatalities.

I don't get how this happens... I have tested my car NUMEROUS times if it detects cars standing still at red light in front when I approach at 60-70mph. And while it waits too close for comfort. It always stops. I do in right lane with an open shoulder that I can use if need be.

 

[Az_Rael]

I don't get how this happens... I have tested my car NUMEROUS times if it detects cars standing still at red light in front when I approach at 60-70mph. And while it waits too close for comfort. It always stops. I do in right lane with an open shoulder that I can use if need be.

Fire trucks and other emergency vehicles are usually not parked dead center in the lane, they are angled and off center. You would need to test against a vehicle stopped partly in your lane or angled in the lane vs at a stoplight. Maybe set up some cardboard vehicles in a safe area (private drive or something). AP appears to do poorly against vehicles partially in a lane, which is documented in the manual, BTW.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

‘Ames said Derrick Monet told investigators he regularly uses his Tesla's autopilot mode, but that “due to the impact of the accident he cannot recall whether or not he had it on at the time of the accident."’

Initial info from the driver trickling out...

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...s-fire-truck-in-indiana-killing-arizona-woman

Another potential AP accident into Fire truck

AP seems likely but we will see.

Again, tragic regardless of cause, and I hope we get reliable collision avoidance and mitigation systems soon.

 

[Az_Rael]

AP seems likely but we will see.

Either way, I also hope we get info on whether AEB went off. That is the system I would want to know “it had my back” if I messed up while driving.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Either way, I also hope we get info on whether AEB went off. That is the system I would want to know “it had my back” if I messed up while driving.

I’m sure it has your back. But it does not have to work all the time or be reliable at all to be super helpful and reduce fatalities. It just sucks a lot if you are one of the cases where it does not happen to work at all.

 

[mos6507]

AP and the safety features aren’t really designed for high speed and stopped objects.

Accidents like this demonstrate that they sure as hell should be.

 

[mos6507]

He engaged it on a highway with intersections and a semi-truck crossed his path.

This sounds just like the AP1 semi t-bone incident. Musk tried to get out of that by claiming the AP2 hardware would never miss the truck. Well, obviously, it can't handle it either. Liability = Tesla. I'm surprised that incidents like this aren't making front page news anymore. It's becoming just a statistic now.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Accidents like this demonstrate that they sure as hell should be.

Goes to show how difficult a problem it is to solve without false positives. Human brains are amazing.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I have tested my car NUMEROUS times if it detects cars standing still at red light in front when I approach at 60-70mph.

Probably not even close to numerous enough. The average human driver goes an entire lifetime without hitting a stopped vehicle at 60-70mph. You would need to test for many lifetimes to prove that AP responds to stopped vehicles reliably (which it doesn't of course and is clearly stated as a limitation in the owner's manual).

 

[Oldschool496]

Speak of the devil.

Well, that was quick, another model 3 with a supposed issue against autopilot. 75mph in a heavy rain and its the autopilot thats at fault?

No its the user, thinks their car can do anything, first lesson of auto-pilot, does not work well in inclement weather, forget the other facts of 75mph and hydroplaning.

Again, and again. Yes these cars are safe and the numbers are small, but in comparison to how many cars on the road having all these accidental issues, my bet is the numbers are staggering against how safe it is not. Related directly also to the user 99.99999% of the time.

TRAINING on proper use of autopilot I am a proponent. Reading the manual two or three times might help also.

 

[Cuttin]

Probably not even close to numerous enough. The average human driver goes an entire lifetime without hitting a stopped vehicle at 60-70mph. You would need to test for many lifetimes to prove that AP responds to stopped vehicles reliably (which it doesn't of course and is clearly stated as a limitation in the owner's manual).

You raise a good point. Never thought of it that way.

 

[JPWhite]

Tesla is the only set of car forums I have been on, where people feel the need to report virtually every accident they are in.

Someone died. This is hardly a trivial report. In addition it illustrates why we must be vigilant when using AP.

 

[Az_Rael]

LOL. Same to me...except I haven’t generalized my experience onto Tesla drivers as a group.

Data. Facts. Those are key. Agreed.

Well, turns out the driver did use AP frequently, so it wasn’t a bad guess on my part for a fellow Tesla driver. Sometimes generalizations are correct.

 

[jjrandorin]

Someone died. This is hardly a trivial report. In addition it illustrates why we must be vigilant when using AP.

Yes, its very unfortunate that someone died. I didnt say it wasnt. I said there is a lot of focus on ensuring that everyone knows every accident that happens in a tesla on these boards, which is not the same thing.

People pass away in car accidents every day, in every car brand, and its really unfortunate... but in no other car forums I have been in is there this focus on "another accident in a tesla" like there is here.

 

[tvad]

Well, turns out the driver did use AP frequently, so it wasn’t a bad guess on my part for a fellow Tesla driver. Sometimes generalizations are correct.

The driver using AP frequently doesn’t mean he/she was using it at the time of the accident.

Facts are always correct.

 

[Az_Rael]

The driver using AP frequently doesn’t mean he/she was using it at the time of the accident.
Facts are always correct.

Well yes, facts are always correct. No one is arguing that.

The probability he was using AP on a long road trip on a well marked rural freeway does go up knowing he was a frequent AP user.

 

[tvad]

Well yes, facts are always correct. No one is arguing that.

Good to know.