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Unhappy Owners Post's Removed / Censored

ohmman

Upright Member
Global Moderator
Feb 13, 2014
11,290
22,271
North Bay, CA
Funny. I have found quite the opposite of the complaint in this thread; that is, I personally sense a good amount of negative feedback regarding features (their implementation, lack thereof, or timeliness), to the point of finding some threads rapidly turning toxic.

I believe what the moderators are trying to do here is to set a tone on the forum without censoring actual content. If they allow the tone that the OP clearly set from the start, this place will become unattractive to serious contributors. I'm certain the OP doesn't speak with his/her friends and family the way he/she expressed his/herself here in the first posts.

Criticism is tolerable in any facet of life when it is clearly and respectfully enunciated, and made clear only once or twice. OP is not guilty of repeating complaints in multiple threads, but this is another example of offensive behavior, in my view.

OP can check my previous postings, if desired. I'm not a cheerleader for Tesla and have plenty of criticism. Those posts stand in their threads - they weren't moved despite being 'negative'.

My 31 cents.
 

S'toon

Knows where his towel is
Apr 23, 2015
3,702
3,751
AB
Many years ago, on a forum board that no longer exists, I was a relatively new member. I called a troll a troll, and received a warning and was put under moderator probation for my messages. I complained about it in the forum and was temporarily banned. I learned my lesson. I only once ever got a PM from a mod after that, saying that I would have had been disciplined if I hadn't called a person an idiot in a way that made the mod laugh.
 
Many years ago, on a forum board that no longer exists, I was a relatively new member. I called a troll a troll, and received a warning and was put under moderator probation for my messages. I complained about it in the forum and was temporarily banned. I learned my lesson. I only once ever got a PM from a mod after that, saying that I would have had been disciplined if I hadn't called a person an idiot in a way that made the mod laugh.

That was a great story
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
13,553
10,124
Hey All,

I just received a message from a mod that talking negative about Tesla on this forum creates a "toxic atmosphere" and my posts were moved / removed from the site.

I have to ask, is it fair when someone is upset and frustrated with the quality of my car and also the service to censor my posts? Is this site only geared towards those who only have positive things to say and praise everything that is Tesla? I am frustrated as I spent a lot of money on my P85D and I am having many problems and having issues with the servicing of my vehicle. Does that warrant the censoring of my posts?
From what I can tell, the post was not removed but moved to snippiness, which is pretty standard procedure for posts that border on violating the rules (or outright does). There's a lot of "innocent" posts that get moved there too because they got caught in the conversation. That is not censoring, esp. given the mod will typically leave a link in the original thread notifying that a post was moved.

And if I can venture a guess, I'm going to guess there were also people who reported your behavior. You have repeatedly called a few prominent members here idiots for some of the videos they made, even after they have explained the context of their video and told you to stop calling them that.

And in general, as I explained in a post to you, there was a recent incident where a new member was caught as a troll using a fake persona, so everyone here is on their toes about new members. When a new member like you comes here with guns blazing, I think you should expect some push back.

Keep in mind this is still a Tesla enthusiast forum and whatever criticism of Tesla laid out here by members is still typically in the context of being constructive and with an overall positive tone. That is the only way to keep the forum a civil place and not have things get "personal". That is why the mod gave you advice of avoiding a negative tone. If people wanted to read posts with extreme negativity they would be visiting the "Tesla haters club", not coming here.
 

woof

Fluffy Member
Supporting Member
Apr 30, 2009
1,602
2,060
I'm guessing the OP didn't (doesn't?) know what "moved to snippiness" meant. It is a term of art here on TMC, and newcomers may not know about the snippiness thread. In the future, the mods should make that clear in their communications when they move posts there...that and what an honor it is to be on the snippiness thread, with some of TMC's best and brightest.
 

ohmman

Upright Member
Global Moderator
Feb 13, 2014
11,290
22,271
North Bay, CA
I'm guessing the OP didn't (doesn't?) know what "moved to snippiness" meant. It is a term of art here on TMC, and newcomers may not know about the snippiness thread. In the future, the mods should make that clear in their communications when they move posts there...that and what an honor it is to be on the snippiness thread, with some of TMC's best and brightest.

Not only that, but it earns you a subscription so that you can enjoy checking in to see what's recently been moved there. Always an entertaining visit.
 
I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet because your snippiness continues even though many users are simply asking you to tone done your negativity. Everyone has clearly said that there is nothing wrong with posting criticism but it is your insulting tone that is simply not welcomed.

Read the rest of this thread, and all the others on this site, there are piles and piles of passive aggressive banter like that. Why is ar4c the only one that is not able to participate? I also find it ironic that ar4c is being lambasted for calling people an idiot and attacking other members, but he has been flogged as a troll, liar, etc…but thats OK. I have never been as vocal as ar4c in my posts, but have definitely felt the same way he does around the sensitivity this forum has around comments that are negative to the brand. Whether its due to fanboy or financial ties, it is apparent both are a conflict of interest in getting any unbiased opinion or advice about what to do in any given situation a curious/furious/worried Tesla owner might find themselves in.

I did find this post rather hilarious, though - i am still laughing :)

Hey, you forgot to call him an idiot....
 

Auzie

Tree Hugger Member
Jul 29, 2013
1,898
45
Sydney
Hey All,
I just received a message from a mod that talking negative about Tesla on this forum creates a "toxic atmosphere" and my posts were moved / removed from the site.
I have to ask, is it fair when someone is upset and frustrated with the quality of my car and also the service to censor my posts? Is this site only geared towards those who only have positive things to say and praise everything that is Tesla? I am frustrated as I spent a lot of money on my P85D and I am having many problems and having issues with the servicing of my vehicle. Does that warrant the censoring of my posts?
It is very different then any other forum I am ever been on, thats for sure. I have concerns and vent my frustration and immediately am called a "troll" and bullied, then outright censored because people disagree with me. It is shocking to say the least.
As you can see, I am being called "trollish" because I have been venting frustrations with my experience with my car and the service. The only thing I have done is voiced my opinion, which of course is negative, because I am upset with Tesla. If you read what he is saying, he is encouraging only "positive" posts. I have done nothing to violate any rules, and am being policed simply because I disagree with the Tesla fans here, nothing more.


Tesla criticism need not be conflated with poor social behaviour.


Constructive, specific criticism given in a factual way, free from name calling and juvenile remarks, promotes some outstanding debates on the forum. These debates are often my favourite forum reads as there is a lot to learn from the contributors on both sides of the argument. These debates and constructive factual arguing add value to the forum and attract members to come back.


Venting personal frustrations on other TMC members is inconsiderate at least if it is done outside of constructive factual arguing or after the debate runs its course.


It is like going to work or a large social gathering and dumping personal bad mood or personal unresolved issues on others. TMC is no different in that respect. It is a social gathering and if someone is 'toxic' in a social setting that ruins the place for others.


Dumping persistent negativity and unhappiness on others without some restraints is inconsiderate. Other forum participants have not contributed to the problems you complain about in any way, why take it out on them?


Your issues seem to be with Tesla Motors, I hope you resolve your issues with the relevant party.
My 2c.
 

Max*

Charging
Apr 8, 2015
6,672
3,838
NoVa
Read the rest of this thread, and all the others on this site, there are piles and piles of passive aggressive banter like that. Why is ar4c the only one that is not able to participate? I also find it ironic that ar4c is being lambasted for calling people an idiot and attacking other members, but he has been flogged as a troll, liar, etc…but thats OK. I have never been as vocal as ar4c in my posts, but have definitely felt the same way he does around the sensitivity this forum has around comments that are negative to the brand. Whether its due to fanboy or financial ties, it is apparent both are a conflict of interest in getting any unbiased opinion or advice about what to do in any given situation a curious/furious/worried Tesla owner might find themselves in.

I did find this post rather hilarious, though - i am still laughing :)

There's two ways to criticize. You can get personal and attack the person/company [Tesla sucks, you're an idiot, etc.] or you can attack the underlying problem [the P85D doesn't get 691HP, Nav sucks, Trip planner beta is a disaster, etc.].

When you attach the company [let it be for good reasons, as his reasons were valid], and you have 1 post on the forum, it's suspicious that you actually have a problem and didn't just join the forum to stir the pot.
 

Doug_G

Lead Moderator
Global Moderator
Apr 2, 2010
17,888
3,416
Ottawa, Canada
but he has been flogged as a troll, liar, etc…but thats OK.

No, that is NOT okay. The moderators do try to calm down that as well. The actions are milder against a non-repeat-offender. Most moderator actions comprise asking people to calm down via PM, so you wouldn't see them. It's only when that fails (or the initial offense is egregious) that you start seeing visible actions in the forum threads.

I don't deal with the Model S sections, so I've only gotten involved since this thread appeared in Site Feedback. People who have crossed the line in this thread have indeed heard from me.

FYI, the instigator of these troubles was banned yesterday.
 

S'toon

Knows where his towel is
Apr 23, 2015
3,702
3,751
AB
No, that is NOT okay. The moderators do try to calm down that as well. The actions are milder against a non-repeat-offender. Most moderator actions comprise asking people to calm down via PM, so you wouldn't see them. It's only when that fails (or the initial offense is egregious) that you start seeing visible actions in the forum threads.

I don't deal with the Model S sections, so I've only gotten involved since this thread appeared in Site Feedback. People who have crossed the line in this thread have indeed heard from me.

FYI, the instigator of these troubles was banned yesterday.
He can't say he wasn't warned, by mods and non-mods alike. My anecdote about my own behaviour as a learning moment was responded to by a sarcastic remark by him.
 

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