That's honestly one of my fears about when true self driving becomes available, because I don't want to use car services but I don't want to manually drive like a peasant either. Private ownership of a self driving vehicle is heaven. Sharing is hell.
Elon Musk: Tesla will stop selling cars [Update: at consumer pricing] once full self-driving is solved
Once cars can operate as robotaxis, there would be little incentive for the company to sell them when they can generate revenue by operating them as taxis.electrek.co
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Unhappy with FSD sales and pricing
- Thread starter KITT77
- Start date
Elon Musk: Tesla will stop selling cars [Update: at consumer pricing] once full self-driving is solved
Once cars can operate as robotaxis, there would be little incentive for the company to sell them when they can generate revenue by operating them as taxis.
Elon’s not making any sense here (although, in fairness, it’s hard to elaborate on things via Twitter).
FSD and the car itself have always been two separate things, and the plan has always been to make FSD ridiculously expensive if FSD ever achieved L5...
So why wouldn’t Tesla simply continue to sell cars with Basic Autopilot to consumers? Am I missing something here?
supposedly they think it'll make more sense to put every car they can build on the road as a taxi and use them for ongoing revenue instead of one time sales.
OK I see. Elon’s way smarter than I am, but this seems suspect.
Google tells me that the ride share market today is something like $50-$100B. Tesla made somewhere between $20-$30B selling cars last year. They’d have to have a pretty substantial portion of the ride share market to make up for not selling anymore cars.
I get that the ride share segment is growing, but it can only grow so much. Some people are just going to need their own car. I live out in the BFE and I’m not interested in waiting for a robotaxi (or any taxi) so I can make a 2 minute trip to the store because I forgot to buy an onion for the meal I’ve started cooking.
If Tesla won’t sell me a car, I’ll be disappointed but I’m definitely getting one from somewhere else. I suspect there are millions of people that fall in that category
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Lots of un-necessary drama here. FSD is simply an option that buyers can consider. They can either order it when they buy the car or add it on later if their needs change.
Tesla is probably pricing it to optimize profits. They could charge less and sell more or charge even more and sell slightly less. It is an aspirational add on that many will feel well worth the price...others, not so much.
Tesla is probably pricing it to optimize profits. They could charge less and sell more or charge even more and sell slightly less. It is an aspirational add on that many will feel well worth the price...others, not so much.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
See my comments from a year or two back. Tesla can make a lot more money running those cars as robotaxis than by selling them.
I agree that it’s possible, but I’ll believe it when I see it. I think this is far from a sure thing.
All I know for sure is that if Tesla wants to make any money off of me in the future, they’ll have to sell me a car, not offer me a ride in one of their own.
Exactly. I don't care if it makes more financial sense to commute and run errands in a hired autonomous car. There's more to life than making sure every decision is the best one for the money, and I simply have no interest in a car that isn't mine, because my car is a private space that goes where I need it to be, like an extension of my home.
It would make more financial sense to live in an apartment with roommates instead of a single family residence, but I'm not gonna sell my house and move in with other people either.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Well, first they have to get the FSD thing, right ? We'll cross the bridge after that.
They will do whatever they need to, to maximize profits keeping their vision/mission in mind. Making money of any particular individual won't be a priority.
ps : You can always buy a Waymo car instead ...
Well, first they have to get the FSD thing, right ? We'll cross the bridge after that.
They will do whatever they need to, to maximize profits keeping their vision/mission in mind. Making money of any particular individual won't be a priority.
ps : You can always buy a Waymo car instead ...
Or a Lucid Air, Rivian, Volkswagen, Apple Car and who ever else has stepped into the space by the time Tesla “gets the FSD thing right”. Even after they finish the feature set they have right now, it’s still solidly level 2. They need to get to 5.
Speaking of Waymo, they’re a lot closer to a functioning robotaxi service than Tesla and they still wouldn’t make anywhere near the revenue that Tesla makes selling cars (I’m not even sure if they would be profitable if it went live today). And we haven’t even seen Tesla meet the demand for any of the cars they currently sell.
So, sure, maybe it is “just, like my opinion man”. But I guarantee you that most people aren’t trying to trade individual car ownership for ride sharing. People can Uber and Lyft where they want to go today for less cost than owning a Tesla and people are still buying them in droves. I doubt that many people are going to say, “man, I can’t buy a Tesla, guess my only option is a Tesla robotaxi now”.
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I too would prefer to own my own car, and I'm sure there are many other people who would feel the same way. There may also be a lot of people who don't and would be totally cool with ridesharing for the rest of their lives.
I think this is a long way off realistically... something that would only be seriously considered once FSD is stable, proven and widespread (5 - 10 years minimum).
Also, the fact that Tesla still sells the Model S and Model X and just refreshed both of them with luxury in mind (even though both are at this point indulgences and are unnecessary for transport with the 3 and Y being on the market) would lead me to think there will at least be some cars offered for private sale for a long time to come. Whether those are "affordable" cars, is another question.
I suppose there could be a future where the 3 and Y are no longer sold to private individuals, while the S and X are kept around as luxuries for the clientelle who can afford them with the "privilege" of private ownership being one of the luxuries.
On a tangent, more generally I expect that one day even driving oneself around (manually) will be become an indulgence for the wealthy. I expect that once self-driving cars do become ubiquitous, it will probably become extremely difficult and expensive to get insured to drive a car the old fashioned way (or to drive an old "classic" ICE car). Most people will probably think you're some eccentric madman daredevil who enjoys playing with their own lives for wanting to grab the wheel when everyone else is fine being driven around (which is probably why it will become fashionable at least for some time).
I paid $10.000 for FSD and I don't think it was worth it. It can change to faster lanes, exit passing lanes, take freeway exits, and self-park (sometimes). It also disconnects for no reason at times. Summon is a gimmick. I find it more stressful to constantly monitor FSD for unexpected disconnection and the jarring alarms than to just drive the car. It's good in slow, stop-and-go traffic, but lots of cars can do that. You don't need a FSD Tesla.
rxlawdude
Active Member
And that's why it's an option. For those who think it is worth it.
Kimmi
Member
I had FSD free for 3 months. Just returned from a 1K+ mile trip using the included Auto Pilot. The only thing I miss from FSD is during lane changes.
cylonmode
Member
I feel bad for the early adopters... IMHO FSD is a scam. The fan boys get real mad when you say stuff like that.
rxlawdude
Active Member
No, we get mad when people use the term "scam."
cylonmode
Member
You received your M3 almost a year ago... No significant FSD features since then, IMHO you got scammed. "Maybe" in the future that won't be the case, but by then we'll also likely have a subscription service.
No significant features?
There are lots of FSDbeta 8.x videos on YouTube. Only a couple thousand people are in the FSDbeta program and those that are waiting live vicariously through them. Tesla has been pushing out vision-only and they're on the cusp of releasing FSDbeta 9.0.
There are so many anonymous nicks on TMC repeatedly using loaded words like "scam", but no lawsuits going after Tesla. Its always the same nicks talking about potential class-action lawsuits for years, but it doesn't go anywhere. And that's why they're on TMC.
There are lots of FSDbeta 8.x videos on YouTube. Only a couple thousand people are in the FSDbeta program and those that are waiting live vicariously through them. Tesla has been pushing out vision-only and they're on the cusp of releasing FSDbeta 9.0.
There are so many anonymous nicks on TMC repeatedly using loaded words like "scam", but no lawsuits going after Tesla. Its always the same nicks talking about potential class-action lawsuits for years, but it doesn't go anywhere. And that's why they're on TMC.
cylonmode
Member
rxlawdude
Active Member
You have absolutely no business telling me whether I've been scammed or not. I know that I will get the value out of those (and I paid very little for FSD on the M3) and I went into the purchase with eyes wide open.
People here are turning red state/blue state. Take a freakin' chill pill.
Then there will be the boo birds who didn't purchase FSD, yet are constantly and impatiently bashing it who will cry, because when FSD is released and exceeds expectations the cost will be $15,000.
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