Unhappy with phantom braking

[EVNow]

Other details: I live in the PNW, there are often gently curvy slightly hilly two lane roads with trees on both sides when this is happening. It seems worse on 2021.32.21 than the 2021.4 release I used to be on. It was always bad though. And yes I’ve talked to a Tesla service technician and there is nothing wrong with my cameras.

It has started happening to me with the vision only FSD beta. They will slowly solve it.

 

[rt29781]

I have a June 2021 Tesla Vision M3LR and my car regularly drops 5-10 miles at night and alerts for no reason (especially at night). I’m on 2021.32.21. Last night I had 5 phantom braking events within a very short period and the car behind me started honking their horn. I try to catch them fast enough but I really like relying on cruise control to lower the stress of driving. This is such a problem in my vehicle that I’m considering not driving it at night any longer and just using our Volvo that has more reliable autonomous cruise control. I believe in the electric future but I need cruise control.

Other details: I live in the PNW, there are often gently curvy slightly hilly two lane roads with trees on both sides when this is happening. It seems worse on 2021.32.21 than the 2021.4 release I used to be on. It was always bad though. And yes I’ve talked to a Tesla service technician and there is nothing wrong with my cameras.

We have a 2021 M3 with 4200 miles. Stopped using TACC as it is too tedious due to dangerous braking. Reported the issue to the DVSA in the UK and they are monitoring the situation and talking to the NHTSA. Suggest you report the issue to your regulatory body which is the NHTSA in the USA. Tesla will do nothing unless people complain. Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA

 

[jiml]

Just drove 1000 miles over the past week. No phantom breaking on 10.2 Beta which switched my vehicle to vision only. I have had phantom breaking incidents in the past when it used radar.

I still drive with my foot near the accelerator due to being concerned it will happen.

 

[ytfsic]

Suggest you report the issue to your regulatory body which is the NHTSA in the USA.

Thank you. I've been submitting bug reports intermittently as these occur as well, and earlier today re-calibrated my cameras (didn't help). If 10.2 is the fix I hope it moves out of beta-beta soon. It's ridiculous that FSD (which is a beta product) is in double-beta. I'd be happy with just regular (dumb) cruise control at least if that were an option.

 

[Tam]

2018 Model 3 with pure vision FSD beta 10.2: The system fought me to reduce the cruise speed max that I originally set at 65. I bumped it up and it kept reducing it down, then I bumped it up and it again reduced it down quite a few times in a row before it let me won and I was able to keep the speed limit that I wanted.

Below, I was cruising at 65 MPH then it may be the wrong GPS coding as the speed limit icon on the right displayed as 45 (from 65 a second ago) and the system would fight me and wouldn't let me bump it back up to 65:

Once I was able to get to the speed of 65 then the speed icon on the icon goes down to 55 (on the right) and the cruise speed was automatically reduced to 30 max (on the left) against my will.

I had to fight the system to keep up with my desired speed.

It looks like the pure vision version needs to import the correct speed limit and stop fighting humans who want to override whatever slower speed it wants.

So, actually, in this case, it's not about radar or radarless but it's about a new version that needs to be more polished.

 

[chamshaw]

My M3 LR is about as good as I can expect from a used import from Japan. However, it phantom-brakes (identifiably) for manhole covers, strong double-yellow divider strips, shadows on the lane from oncoming trucks, contrasting road patches, vehicles on an outside curve and, thankfully, for a car that closely suddenly turned across my bow. Nothing as vicious as has been described here, but slightly jarring nevertheless. As a side note, I'm a firm believer in the two-second rule, and cruise control at the farthest separation is at about a second and a half. Open it out, Tesla.

 

[Huskyf]

We have a 2021 M3 with 4200 miles. Stopped using TACC as it is too tedious due to dangerous braking. Reported the issue to the DVSA in the UK and they are monitoring the situation and talking to the NHTSA. Suggest you report the issue to your regulatory body which is the NHTSA in the USA. Tesla will do nothing unless people complain. Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA

Strange with my model S I make 98% from Geneva to Finland in Autopilot - NOA and that 's 6500 km roundtrip and 0 phantom breaking
For UK and your model 3 is not on the new system Tesla Vision I think is not the same problem. Try to recalibrate the camera via the settings of the car.

 

[Centauri2]

Just did my first road trip from
Salt Lake to Phoenix and back. The phantom braking has me ready to move on to another vehicle. Cruise control was un-useable on 2 or 4 lane roads due to constant phantom braking. And I mean every 20-30 seconds. Unbelievable that Tesla has not solved this issue, or at least allow disabling of whatever systems are causing the issue. All I want from cruise control is to maintain speed, that’s it. ICE folks solved the problem half a century ago.

And yes, we tried disabling some or all of the options in the system, with no changes.

A complete and utter joke

 

[sfreedmanphd]

Our Tesla model 3 has had this dangerous behavior several times. When I’m in auto pilot cruise control all of a sudden the car lurches forward and it wants to stop. Each time this happened there were no other vehicles in my way. Provided Tesla with detailed info about when, where, driving conditions, etc. the report showed that it detected another vehicle coming into the lane. This wasn’t the case at all. In one instance we were getting onto the freeway after midnight and there were no other vehicles on the on ramp when it suddenly lurched to stop. This is extremely dangerous! Tesla is telling me that’s how the system works and that it’s sensitive to shadows too!! So if there’s a shadow and the car thinks it’s another car trying to cut in front of me, it’ll want to stop. In one instance I almost got rear ended. Now I’m afraid to use autopilot or cruise control because of it. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[Jo060]

Sounds like "phantom braking".

 

[Gimmethecash]

Yeah sounds like phantom braking to me too. I get it mostly when passing to the left of trucks on left-hand bends on the freeway, also sometimes at overpasses. I’ve gotten fairly good at predicting when it’s going to happen and I’ll put my foot on the accelerator in anticipation of overriding it.

 

[CHB02]

They don’t know all of the causes so they cannot fix it for good. But No one has died from phantom braking yet.

Only a matter of time. You brake check the wrong person, you get shot.

 

[haroldo]

FWIW, I've noticed my car rarely, if ever, brakes/slows (I mainly got periodic random slowing, but not physical braking) without reason. Guessing it's been tweaked in one of the updates

 

[Goose66]

I can report that 10.6.1 still has lots of phantom braking (or "random slowing" - whatever you want to call it). So much so that it gets tiresome taking Autopilot snapshots 6 or 7 times on a four mile trip. It will just be cruising along at 45, hard brake down to 38, and then immediately accelerate back to 45 for no apparent or consistent reason. It's not (just) emerging traffic, changes in lines, sun/shade transitions, or any other single thing or consistent combination of things that I can put my finger on.

It's also interesting to note that, for me at least, Autopilot and NoA did not have these problems - or at least they had been mostly eliminated - in the version of the firmware I had before receiving my first FSD Beta version (10.5). Don't know if that meant my 2018 M3 LR was still using the radar or just the old vision stack, but whatever work had been done to eliminate the phantom braking problems in Autopilot has been completely thrown out with the bath water in the FSD Beta firmware.

 

[clydeiii]

Sometimes you have to blow away the local maxima to get to the global maxima.

 

[haroldo]

.

phantom braking (or "random slowing" - whatever you want to call it)

I differentiate the two, as I believe they are two separate issues,
One being the physical brakes engaging, the other being cruise control drops the acceleration.
The former might be due to a false positive with respect to a potential hazard, the later might be due to a glitch in the cruise control system.
I've never had unintended braking (I've had braking, for a valid reason, though, so I know what it feels like).
I've had a few (although none recently), situations where cruise control dropped the speed from the set 70....which I quickly overrode with a pulse of the accelerator.

 

[Goose66]

Sometimes you have to blow away the local maxima to get to the global maxima.

Well they certainly blew it away. You would think in 14 months of testing and training FSD Beta they would have at least gotten back to where they were, though.

 

[BitJam]

Driving home (vision-only model Y with AP) on a two lane highway with a double yellow line my car would brake for all vehicles in the opposite lane. There were very few cars so it wasn't a huge issue but if there was more traffic, AP would have been unusable. We also had strong disagreements when I moved out of my lane to give space to bicyclists and to a stopped police car. I don't think disabling AP fixes this problem.

 

[Boston_Pilot]

Moderator changed the title of my post. Is anyone “happy” with phantom braking? haha. Whatever. Guess you can’t be critical of these cars here. I really like the car, but nothing is perfect. And how will it ever approve if you can’t give input. I stand by my comment that there is no excuse for what was occurring today. ”Slam” was appropriate when it throws you forward like that.

Don’t you love when mods change your words? That’s not moderation, that’s censorship.

 

[clydeiii]

Well they certainly blew it away. You would think in 14 months of testing and training FSD Beta they would have at least gotten back to where they were, though.

They decided to go full-vision halfway through the FSD Beta...if you recall, the first versions were NOT vision-only. Again, local vs global maxima. Tesla isn't afraid to change direction when they realize they've come up against a local one.