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Unlimited Supercharging Value

gnuarm

Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
I met someone who had to deal with the insurance company when their battery was struck by a road hazard and needed to be replaced. Seems the insurance policy has a fixed 50% replacement value on batteries which was based on an ICE car with the standard lead acid battery which lasts some 3 to 5 years. Rather than deal with prorating the insurance company just uses 50% across the board. They did talk the insurance company out of that eventually since the battery replacement was $22,000 and it is an integral part of the car more so than in an ICE.

What occurred to me is the unlimited supercharging value may not be properly recognized by the insurance company. I don't see it on any of my Tesla paperwork, so the insurance company may not consider that to be covered. If the car is replaced, I won't have that benefit anymore. Is it to be expected that this will be compensated?

I did some numbers and at the Tesla price of $0.28 per kWh and the expected life of a car of 300,000 to 500,000, Supercharging will cost $33,600 to $56,000. That's significant. How can I document this so it is covered in the event the car is totaled? Then there is the issue of the cost of supercharging may increase over the years as the network expands, or worse, is taken over by another company.
 

HankLloydRight

No Roads
Supporting Member
Jan 18, 2014
13,068
11,317
Connecticut
So are you assuming that you do 100% supercharging and you get an average of 400 wh/m?

I think a more reasonable assumption would be 10% of your use is supercharging, and 330 lifetime average wh/m.. which is worth about $2,700.
 
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gnuarm

Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
So are you assuming that you do 100% supercharging and you get an average of 400 wh/m?

With my usage pattern, I do pretty much Supercharge 100%. I do very little local driving and take weekly trips over 100 miles, so I always hit a Supercharger on the long legs.

I got the 400 Wh/m from the Tesla page where they indicate 1,000 miles of free Supercharging which they equate to 400 kWh. That is realistic when you factor in the non-driving power drains. The typical mileage Wh/m numbers are always only for motion related power draws and don't include vampire losses, etc. which are supplied by charging whether you drive the car or not.
 

HankLloydRight

No Roads
Supporting Member
Jan 18, 2014
13,068
11,317
Connecticut
Well, I think you'll have a really really hard time convincing any insurance company that they need to pay you that much for "free supercharging".
 

Fellsteruk

Active Member
Feb 24, 2018
1,040
437
North West, UK
Isn’t free supercharging a “gift” as such I doubt this is gonna fly on any day of the week.

Also supercharging is worth peanuts, in fact it ain’t worth that!! Sure your frying your battery using it all the time so your an edge case but for the other 99% the value during ownership is mini yet the phycological value of free fuel for life is massive yet most never use it.

I live 5mins from a supercharger, I drive past it twice a day on my way to and from work, excluding the first few weeks of ownership when I tested the hell out of it I never use it.

Even as free fuel for life and even if it wasn’t frying my battery the 2/3 hours a week I’d have to sit at The charger, well, I value my time more than that and whilst I get it’s the only option for many, personally if supercharging was my only source of power if I got an EV I’d still be driving an ICE
 

ewoodrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2018
5,285
4,269
Buford, GA
My estimate of value $0.

Especially in this case it seems as if the car was not totaled and therefore free supercharging would still exit.
 

SSedan

Active Member
Jul 24, 2017
2,948
2,589
Greenville Wisconsin
So much wrong here.
The idea every Tesla is going to go 300-500k is a delusion. The motor is different than other cars but the rest of it is still just a car and frankly a LOT of vehicles probably the majority go to the boneyard with a functional drivetrain. Yes some ICE and I am certain Tesla's can and do go 300k but those are the exception.

The idea that supercharging destroys a battery is pretty well disproven as well.
 

gaswalla

Model S,3,X.. CT with Austin delivery
Sep 23, 2012
3,482
4,040
San Diego
There's a whole buzz about Tesla ratcheting down supercharging rates for folks that have supercharged a lot (over 2325 kwhs).. Tesla describes the throttling as a 'feature' that 'protects the battery from further damage from supercharging.'
So, straight from the source - supercharging is bad for the battery
 

HankLloydRight

No Roads
Supporting Member
Jan 18, 2014
13,068
11,317
Connecticut
supercharging is bad for the battery

It depends on what the definition of "is" is. :rolleyes:

How about: "under certain conditions, supercharging may be bad for the battery"

That's not a reason to not supercharge, or absolutely minimize supercharging, or broadcast things like "supercharging fries your battery".
 
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MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,437
38,370
Oregon
What occurred to me is the unlimited supercharging value may not be properly recognized by the insurance company. I don't see it on any of my Tesla paperwork, so the insurance company may not consider that to be covered. If the car is replaced, I won't have that benefit anymore. Is it to be expected that this will be compensated?

I did some numbers and at the Tesla price of $0.28 per kWh and the expected life of a car of 300,000 to 500,000, Supercharging will cost $33,600 to $56,000. That's significant.

Your compensation would be based on the fair market value for a comparable car. So you could show them recent sale prices for a similarly equipped car that had FUSC.

Do cars with FUSC sell for $33-56k more than cars without it? No, so the insurance company isn't going to lay a golden egg for you.

I recently went through something similar with an ICE car that got totaled. It was a collector's edition where only 500 were made. And they based the value on buying a non-collector's edition and then adding ~40% of the cost of the collector's edition package. (Which obviously isn't actually a comparable car.) I had to fight and find an actually collector's edition for sale, at a dealer, to get them to budge on the value. (And they wouldn't accept private party ads as they said I could be working with the seller to inflate the price.)

I ended up getting ~75% what I wanted, and probably could have hired a lawyer to get more, but then I would have netted less.
 
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MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,437
38,370
Oregon
There's a whole buzz about Tesla ratcheting down supercharging rates for folks that have supercharged a lot (over 2325 kwhs).. Tesla describes the throttling as a 'feature' that 'protects the battery from further damage from supercharging.'
So, straight from the source - supercharging is bad for the battery

But that is only supposed to impact 75kWh and 90kWh packs. But even the throttling only takes a 75kWh pack down to an ~80kW charge rate and they claim that that prevents further damage.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,437
38,370
Oregon
I know this won't be popular, but personally I hope that all Tesla cars with FUSC either get totaled, without injuries, or the battery fails the day after it goes out of warranty and we can end this nonsense of Supercharging abuse. (Replacement batteries at ~$18k that only have a 4-year/50k warranty will quickly kill off anybody really trying to milk the FUSC program.)

Note: I'm not saying everyone with FUSC is abusing it, but enough people do that it causes problems in some locations.
 
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Xminus6

Member
Sep 3, 2015
698
478
Bay Area, CA
I know this won't be popular, but personally I hope that all Tesla cars with FUSC either get totaled, without injuries, or the battery fails the day after it goes out of warranty and we can end this nonsense of Supercharging abuse. (Replacement batteries at ~$18k that only have a 4-year/50k warranty will quickly kill off anybody really trying to milk the FUSC program.)

Note: I'm not saying everyone with FUSC is abusing it, but enough people do that it causes problems in some locations.
I think the vaaaast majority of people with FUSC are using it almost none. It just doesn't fit into the schedule of the average person. Between my 2014 Model S, which was traded-in on a 2016 Model X, I think we've Supercharged less than .25% of the cars' total mileage. A couple trips down south, a number of trips to the mountains but it gets charged 99.5% of the time in the garage. I don't think we're the only ones with such a usage pattern.
 

SSonnentag

Let’s go Brandon!
Apr 11, 2017
1,748
2,352
Arizona
There's a whole buzz about Tesla ratcheting down supercharging rates for folks that have supercharged a lot (over 2325 kwhs).. Tesla describes the throttling as a 'feature' that 'protects the battery from further damage from supercharging.'
So, straight from the source - supercharging is bad for the battery

I’ve supercharged well over 6,000 kWh on my S already, I’m still getting a charge rate of 144 kW.
Charging at 144 kW - 494 mph
 
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MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,437
38,370
Oregon
I think the vaaaast majority of people with FUSC are using it almost none. It just doesn't fit into the schedule of the average person. Between my 2014 Model S, which was traded-in on a 2016 Model X, I think we've Supercharged less than .25% of the cars' total mileage. A couple trips down south, a number of trips to the mountains but it gets charged 99.5% of the time in the garage. I don't think we're the only ones with such a usage pattern.

OK, then maybe Tesla should offer owners ~$2k in service credit in exchange for taking FUSC off of their car.
 

Lasttoy

Active Member
Mar 24, 2017
1,620
957
St Augustine, Fl
Free super charging means a lot to me. I have no clue where to find that amount? But I've been in over 25 states and I go up and down the East Coast once a month and all over Fl. Someone asked why I didn't buy a new S? I replied, I dont need AP or 4x4 . I have every option on my antique. And Free charging. So why spend 100k for new one?
 

gnuarm

Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
Well, I think you'll have a really really hard time convincing any insurance company that they need to pay you that much for "free supercharging".

Why? It was an intrinsic part of the car purchase. Without it I may well have not bought the car. We are talking tens of thousands of dollars. Yeah, that was factored into the purchase... and Tesla has decided it is too expensive to continue to offer.
 

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