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Unnecessary acceleration ticket

Mattopotamus

Member
Jun 7, 2020
376
306
Atlanta
Also the points and the increased insurance premium for several years? I think at worst, the financial calculus would be a break even but at least he would get justice and not get points on his license.

I would have to look more into the charge, but I feel this is the equivalent to a seat belt ticket in terms of an insurance hit, unless you have several tickets already on your insurance. Obviously everyone's driving history will vary, but I doubt the cost of an attorney alone would make it cost effective.

I also understand it is the principal for the OP, but is that worth risking a $300 ticket turning into 12 months probation, $1000+ with fines/fees, and other conditions? People who fighter charges and lose get hosed.
 

Mattopotamus

Member
Jun 7, 2020
376
306
Atlanta
Save your feeling for the movies.
This is about points

Quickly looking online 3 points will increase your insurance on average 15%. I'll use my insurance as an example. It would be a $67 every 6 months. The cost of an attorney would far exceed the fine+ insurance cost. If found guilty, it would be a much bigger hit.

I am just playing devils advocate, and giving my opinion, which is the point of forums.
 

SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
12,767
16,983
New Mexico
I am just playing
I noticed

If you wanted to actually provide a useful counterpoint to OP you would FIRST
  • find out how many points are added for this violation. Wisconsin answer -- 4 points
  • how long they stay on the record. Wisconsin answer -- up to 5 years
  • how many points OP's policy already has
  • OP's current premium
  • OP's insurance approach to points
What is it about a public forum that makes you think BS is a good idea ?
 
Last edited:

DopeGhoti

Active Member
Aug 28, 2019
1,244
1,429
Phoenix, AZ
even so, let's say that the numbers our Devil's Advocate has given combined with your details, Sage, are accurate. a $60 premium increase every 6 months over five years comes to an estimated total cost for "taking the hit" of $60*2*5, or $600, which is more than a lawyer for this case might charge.
 
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SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
12,767
16,983
New Mexico
even so, let's say that the numbers our Devil's Advocate has given combined with your details, Sage, are accurate. a $60 premium increase every 6 months over five years comes to an estimated total cost for "taking the hit" of $60*2*5, or $600, which is more than a lawyer for this case might charge.
Yep. I was going to let the 'advocate' come to that conclusion.
And there are a host of reasons to think the actually premium increase may be quite a bit higher although more information is needed to say so with any confidence.

Which is my point.
 

4SUPER9

MSLR #RN11510 6/7/21
Jun 6, 2013
3,085
2,927
California
I haven't read all 6 pages of this thread, so perhaps this was already discussed. The charge is not acceleration, but is acceleration that causes "the tires of such vehicle to spin and emit loud noises or throw stone or gravel...” Since it is not possible for you to do any of these things with a Tesla, that should be all you need to prove. If, OTOH, you were charged with exhibitionist acceleration, he would have a better case. He did not. I would fight this, and take your chances in court.

In California, you get to ask the officer questions, prior to stating your case. So:

You: "Is it correct that you cited me for ..."
Officer: "Yes"
You: "Did you cite me for anything else?"
Officer: "No"
You: "You do understand that a Tesla is an electric vehicle, right?"
Officer: "Uh, I don't know. Maybe"
You: "You do understand that a Tesla operates almost entirely silently, right"
Officer: "Uh, I don't know. Maybe"
You: "Ok, so since the Tesla is incapable of making any of these loud noises for which is listed on the citation, let's go ahead and check that off the list"
You: "Are you aware that Tesla uses the latest traction control technology"
Officer: "Uh, I don't know"
You: "Are you aware that Tesla has 4 built in cameras that record all motion"
Officer: "Uh, I don't know"
You: "If I show you these recordings, can you please point out to the court any loose gravel or stone on the road?"
Officer: "Uh, I can't see any"
You: "If I show you these recordings, can you please point out when the car threw out any stones or gravel"
Officer: "Uh. I can't see any"
You: "OK, thank you officer. Let's check that off the list now as well."
You to the Judge: "Since the Tesla operates at near silence, and since the Tesla has traction control, and there is no evidence of loose gravel on the road, and no evidence that my vehicle threw any stone or gravel, that seems to address every single item on the citation."
 

Mattopotamus

Member
Jun 7, 2020
376
306
Atlanta
I noticed

If you wanted to actually provide a useful counterpoint to OP you would FIRST
  • find out how many points are added for this violation. Wisconsin answer -- 4 points
  • how long they stay on the record. Wisconsin answer -- up to 5 years
  • how many points OP's policy already has
  • OP's current premium
  • OP's insurance approach to points
What is it about a public forum that makes you think BS is a good idea ?

So you pretty much are playing devils advocate for me. Thanks. Glad you are comfortable with difference of opinions.
 

yessirrom

Member
Jul 19, 2019
43
88
DFW
I am a fast driver. I am not a reckless driver. I usually incur about 1 speeding ticket per year. I consider it a driving tax. I have a clean driving record. Here is what I do:

  • Be polite and courteous and even friendly with the officer. I keep my hands on the wheel until he approaches and asks for ID or some such. I present requested documents and do not argue the merits of the stop with the officer.
  • I contact the court and request a Jury Trial. This will usually result in a far future court date. I often have to explain that "yes" i do want a jury trial.
  • The court will usually send notice of a date via mail. They will often a pre-trial hearing date first.
  • I will show up to the hearing to discuss the case with the prosecutor.
  • This is where I make my case for a dismissal or change of charges and penalties. I have never had a case go past this point unless I felt I had something to prove. Most of the time this is a revenue generation operation so I just offer to pay a fine that day if nothing goes on my record (deferred adjudication). These charges and terms are always negotiable. I just act like I am in a business negotiation with a colleague. They appreciate the professional approach and the lightening of the court case docket. I start with that I am confident that I can convince a jury to find me not guilty. I t has helped that the officer wrote on the back of the citation that I was pleasant during the interaction. Happened twice.
The one time that I wanted to make a point and was truly innocent, I requested the officers training file, the radar gun operation manual, the ticket and any notes made by the officer pertaining to the case. I requested and got a Jury trial. I took questions from the back of the radar gun manual and asked them of the officer. He could not answer but maybe one out of 15 questions.

Me: Officer, what is the effective range of this device?
Officer: I am not a technician.
Me: Your honor, would you direct the officer to answer " I don't know" if he does not know the answer?
Judge: Officer, you must answer with what you know or state that you do not know.

Me: Questions 2-15
Officer: I don't know x 15.

Me to the jury: 15 times the officer said he does not know how this device works. How far, how many cars are in the signal at any given distance, how weather affects it, how to know if a reading is suspect, etc. As far as he is concerned, it is a magic box that he just points out the window and then he guesses what it means.

Prosecutor: obviously the defendant is just trying to get out of a ticket by embarrassing this public servant doing his job.


Jury: Not guilty. It took them 15 minutes to decide.

If I had lost, I would have hired an attorney to appeal.
 

Apone

Member
Oct 7, 2020
85
77
Philadelphia Area
It is funny and I read the first page. I'm sure OP has already made some choice but my 2 comments for all of us after half a lifetime of driving fast. 1) You can accelerate excessively without making noise. We are all bein pedantic about the way the ticket is written. Obviously the radar gun does not care how loud you are. Getting super cute is going to appear disrespectful as some have pointed out. 2) However, as others have stated, you should ALWAYS at least try to fight the ticket. I have a completely clear record and that's not because I've never been pulled over. You can try to say I'm not guilty or, as I have done more than once, you use the plea process to pay a fine and avoid the points. Especially if you know full well you were speeding. I don't tempt karma if I know I did it. I say I would like to use your plea process and give them what they want which is your money anyway. That short term loss is better than years of poor insurance record premiums. I saw some others have been debating this as well.

TLDR - try to get out of it nicely or by paying a fine to avoid points. Best of luck.
 

Mattopotamus

Member
Jun 7, 2020
376
306
Atlanta
I am a fast driver. I am not a reckless driver. I usually incur about 1 speeding ticket per year. I consider it a driving tax. I have a clean driving record. Here is what I do:

  • Be polite and courteous and even friendly with the officer. I keep my hands on the wheel until he approaches and asks for ID or some such. I present requested documents and do not argue the merits of the stop with the officer.
  • I contact the court and request a Jury Trial. This will usually result in a far future court date. I often have to explain that "yes" i do want a jury trial.
  • The court will usually send notice of a date via mail. They will often a pre-trial hearing date first.
  • I will show up to the hearing to discuss the case with the prosecutor.
  • This is where I make my case for a dismissal or change of charges and penalties. I have never had a case go past this point unless I felt I had something to prove. Most of the time this is a revenue generation operation so I just offer to pay a fine that day if nothing goes on my record (deferred adjudication). These charges and terms are always negotiable. I just act like I am in a business negotiation with a colleague. They appreciate the professional approach and the lightening of the court case docket. I start with that I am confident that I can convince a jury to find me not guilty. I t has helped that the officer wrote on the back of the citation that I was pleasant during the interaction. Happened twice.
The one time that I wanted to make a point and was truly innocent, I requested the officers training file, the radar gun operation manual, the ticket and any notes made by the officer pertaining to the case. I requested and got a Jury trial. I took questions from the back of the radar gun manual and asked them of the officer. He could not answer but maybe one out of 15 questions.

Me: Officer, what is the effective range of this device?
Officer: I am not a technician.
Me: Your honor, would you direct the officer to answer " I don't know" if he does not know the answer?
Judge: Officer, you must answer with what you know or state that you do not know.

Me: Questions 2-15
Officer: I don't know x 15.

Me to the jury: 15 times the officer said he does not know how this device works. How far, how many cars are in the signal at any given distance, how weather affects it, how to know if a reading is suspect, etc. As far as he is concerned, it is a magic box that he just points out the window and then he guesses what it means.

Prosecutor: obviously the defendant is just trying to get out of a ticket by embarrassing this public servant doing his job.


Jury: Not guilty. It took them 15 minutes to decide.

If I had lost, I would have hired an attorney to appeal.

Everything you said is factual. I did find the end hilarious though and took serious guts to actually pull off.
 

CyberGus

Not Just a Member
May 5, 2020
1,116
2,517
Austin, TX
I formerly lived in Northern VA, and parked along the street in old town Alexandria one weekend for drinks. As I was walking back to my car, I observed that nearly every vehicle on the street had a ticket. "Ha ha, idiots, they didn't pay attention to HEY WHAT'S THAT ON MY CAR" omg I had a ticket too?? The city had changed the metered parking spaces from daylight Monday-Friday to seven days a week, 24-hours a day, and then hired two officers to do nothing but write citations. Wtf? I was angry and young, and decided to demand my day in court!

I had to take time off to go in person (as required) just to request a court date. Took another day off to appear, but could not find my name on the docket. When I inquired, I was told "oh you got the date wrong it was last week." I was losing interest in this game and offered to just pay the stupid $25 parking fine, but with the additional "failure to appear" charge the total was now over $1000 (which was well beyond my means at the time). "You can appeal if you want" I was told, and having no other options, I took it.

So now on my third day off (and on the correct day) I find the right courtroom, but it was a packed house with no open seats. I loitered briefly at the back of the room when approached by a bailiff. "There's no standing in court." Wait, what? "But I need to be where they call my name because last time I missed my..." but did not get to finish. "YOU. OUT. NOW."

I was pondering my fate in the hall when finally people started to filter out, most very unhappy. One woman exited in tears, even though she was there as an accident victim! The bailiff motioned me inside and escorted me to one of the now-vacated seats (should I tip?) to await my turn. The couple sitting beside me occasionally exchanged whispered comments, only to have a bailiff get right in their faces, his finger pressed against his lips, and "SHHHHH!" them. Five minutes and more whispers later, he was back to tell the woman "YOU. OUT. NOW." Another tearful exit.

I watched in horror as each defendant offered to explain themselves, only to have the judge thank them for the explanation and find them guilty based on the "confession". A few were taken into custody. There was no quarter. I was starting to sweat. A lot. I had no defense for the parking ticket, and only the lamest "whoops, my bad" excuse for the failure to appear. If asked for an explanation, I would have none.

When they finally called my name, I sheepishly approached the prosecutor, paperwork in hand and lump in my throat. Before I could find any words, he stared me down, then looked all around the courtroom. "Your Honor, I don't see the officer of record here today, so...move to dismiss."

The judge shrugged. "Ok. NEXT!"

...at which point my spirit briefly left my body, leaving me to stagger out of the room in stunned silence.
 

Abuccanero

Member
Sep 18, 2020
19
65
Wisconsin
It is funny and I read the first page. I'm sure OP has already made some choice but my 2 comments for all of us after half a lifetime of driving fast. 1) You can accelerate excessively without making noise. We are all bein pedantic about the way the ticket is written. Obviously the radar gun does not care how loud you are. Getting super cute is going to appear disrespectful as some have pointed out. 2) However, as others have stated, you should ALWAYS at least try to fight the ticket. I have a completely clear record and that's not because I've never been pulled over. You can try to say I'm not guilty or, as I have done more than once, you use the plea process to pay a fine and avoid the points. Especially if you know full well you were speeding. I don't tempt karma if I know I did it. I say I would like to use your plea process and give them what they want which is your money anyway. That short term loss is better than years of poor insurance record premiums. I saw some others have been debating this as well.

TLDR - try to get out of it nicely or by paying a fine to avoid points. Best of luck.

I also have a clean record. This was the first time I have been pulled over in 16 years. I tried to plea down and was offered $250 fine with 2 points. I did not want any points. If they offered a fine with no points I would have paid my fine.
 

Saturday

Member
Jul 3, 2020
206
207
Maine
lived in Northern VA
Place is basically a police state. I got pulled over for “window tint” driving a stock Acura just because the cop was flustered I had the balls to pass him on 95 going the speed limit while he was going 5 or 10 under. He just couldn’t have that. Walked up to my car with a measuring device and took a measurement and said “oh they looked darker back there. Have a nice day”. Didn’t even get my registration out before he was gone.

just wanted to hold me up. Kind of bullshit.
 
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Dolemite

is my name
Sep 19, 2019
1,372
1,733
Seattle, WA
Place is basically a police state. I got pulled over for “window tint” driving a stock Acura just because the cop was flustered I had the balls to pass him on 95 going the speed limit while he was going 5 or 10 under. He just couldn’t have that. Walked up to my car with a measuring device and took a measurement and said “oh they looked darker back there. Have a nice day”. Didn’t even get my registration out before he was gone.

just wanted to hold me up. Kind of bullshit.
I’ve lost count how many times I’ve been pulled over up there. That entire area’s basically turned into a foreign country.
 

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