TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

UNOFFICIAL: Bluestar Pricing and Options

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by VolkerP, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,452
    Location:
    Germany
    #1 VolkerP, Jan 19, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
    Bluestar is the Tesla code name for the vehicle platform following the "skateboard" platform on which the Model S and Model X were based. As of today, only very little is known:
    • The platform is intended to spawn an 'affordable' vehicle suitable for mass production, priced at $30k after a $7500 tax credit.
    • Release date of first vehicle based on that platform is 2015 or 2016.
    • Tesla wants to position this platform in size, price, and utility against BMW 3 series.
    So now is the time to put all reasonable facts and assumptions on Bluestar together and publish an enthusiasts-compiled "pricing and options" sheet for the cars based on the Bluestar platform.

    Bluestar Platform - UNOFFICIAL Options and Prices Based on the Bluestar platform, Tesla hones its world-leading EV architecture to the next level. The refinement of that platform sticks with the Tesla brand of premium quality and performance while at the same time targets the affordable, mass-marketable vehicle promised years ago in the company blog. The platform not only spawns Model R, the long-anticipated successor to the Tesla Roadster, but also a compact-class family sedan named Model C.
    All TESLA Bluestar vehicles share the next iteration of the world's leading drive train architecture, consisting of water-cooled battery pack, motor, and power electronics, on board charger, and integrated vehicle energy management. The third iteration of the Tesla plug supports charging architectures in all target markets, be it J1772 AC, IEC 62186 (Mennekes) or DC quick charging standards.
    Wasn't that a good bit of marketing burble!:biggrin:





































    Model C Model R Model R Sport
    class three door compact family sedan two door roadster two door roadster
    seats 5 2+2 2+2
    availability Summer 2016 Summer 2015 Winter 2015
    base price $29,900* $44,900* $64,900*
    standard features 12" touch screen
    air condition
    electric power steering
    6 air bags
    17" wheels with all-weather tires
    2 piston all wheel disc brakes
    15" touch screen
    air condition
    electric power steering
    quick charging
    6 air bags
    19" wheels with all-weather tires
    4 piston front disc brakes
    15" touch screen
    air condition
    electric power steering
    quick charging
    8 air bags
    pax retention system
    racing performance 6 piston front disc brakes
    19" forged alloy wheels with performance tires
    leather interior
    carbon fiber accents + spoilers
    all wheel drive
    air suspension
    dimensions: height
    track
    wheelbase
    length
    58 in / 147cm
    60 in / 152 cm
    104 in / 264 cm
    170 in / 431 cm
    54 in / 137 cm
    60 in / 152 cm
    104 in / 264 cm
    162 in / 411 cm
    same

    *) after $7,500 tax credit


    Battery and Drive Train Specifications



















































































    Model C
    Model C
    Model C
    Model R
    Model R
    Model R Sport
    capacity 30kWh 45kWh 60kWh 45kWh 60kWh 60kWh
    base price $29,900* $34,900* $39,900* $44,900* $49,900* $64,900*
    cell type 3.4Ah Li-ion NPP 3.4Ah Li-ion NPP 4Ah Li-ion ** 3.4Ah Li-ion NPP 4Ah Li-ion ** 4Ah Li-ion **
    # of cells 2178 3267 3696 3267 3696 3696
    range at 55mph 140 miles 200 miles 255 miles 210 miles 270 miles 270 miles
    max. power 120kW 180kW 240kW 185kW 240kW 255kW
    0-60 mph 7.4s 6.5s 5.8s 5.2s 3.9s 3.2s
    top speed 105 mph 110mph 110mph 120mph 125mph 130mph
    curb weight 3275 lbs 3425 lbs 3615 lbs 2245 lbs 2325 lbs 2490 lbs

    *) after $7,500 tax credit
    **) to-be-announced, advanced cell chemistry optimized for automotive appliance.

    Charging options









































    Model C - 30 Model C - 45 Model C - 60 Model R - 45 Model R - 60 Model R Sport
    AC on board charger 10kW standard standard standard standard standard standard
    additional 10kW charger n/a $900 $900 $900 $900 $900
    DC supercharging up to 90kW n/a $1,200 standard $1200 standard standard
    CHAdeMO support * n/a $4,500 $4,500 $4,500 $4,500 $4,500

    *) charge power may be limited by the vehicle



    Disclaimer I put this information together from informed speculation from the Blue Star Wish List thread and others. Feel free to point out additions and corrections and I will update to what seems to be the consensus.

    Motivation Tesla announced Model S prices and options on Dec 22, 2011. They took reservations for general production and signature cars beginning of April, 2009. Though it was clear that reservation holders were putting their money on a "unicorn" with little but the sketchiest data, many were unpleasant with the announcements that Tesla made in the time between, with the latest climax being the announcement of options and prices. A non-exhaustive list of disappointments includes


    • only 300 mile range battery pack for signatures. Sig reservation holders opting for smaller pack sizes faced $20k or $10k price increase over the base and medium size packs.
    • production starts with 300 mile battery pack sizes mid-2012, then 230 mile size in fall, then 160 mile size in winter 2012. Many reservation holders hoped that order of reservation numbers would correlate with production slot and now found that production of their vehicle would be postponed.
    • signature reservation holders found that they pay $3550 to $5000 more than an equally optioned non-sig model, with a narrowed choice of options. In addition to that, Tesla denied rebates for downgrading from some of the options included in the Signature. Some were happy to get the car early, to get a uniquely badged and painted car, others felt very little reward in that and downgraded their reservation to general production.
    • It came as a surprise to some that the smaller battery packs were not capable to sustain the same power for the top model acceleration and were rated down in performance and warranty by Tesla, plus the Tesla quick charging solution (aka supercharging) was only available as an option or not at all. Some reservations were dropped because of that.
    As a consequence, this enthusiast-compiled list should serve as a best guess for what to expect from Bluestar and what not.
     
  2. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    11,923
    Are you speculating or copying from somewhere? Well formatted!
     
  3. Bearman

    Bearman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    Messages:
    363
    Location:
    Sweden
    Nice work Volker!
     
  4. WhiteKnight

    WhiteKnight _____ P85 #549 _____ Sig Red / Sig White

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    627
    Location:
    Atlanta
    #4 WhiteKnight, Jan 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
    Excellent work. Must have taken a lot of time.

    With regard to the top of the line Model R, my guess is that Elon is not going to be satisfied with anything less than the fastest production car (0-60) in the world. So I think the car will be built from the ground up to go 0-60 in 2.4 seconds. I think he'll do this for ego / bragging rights and the tremendous halo it would provide for BlueStar.

    So I'm guessing the Model R will be All Wheel Drive for sure (with two motors). It will be ultralight with maximum carbon fiber, aluminum (titanium?), etc. And I figure it will have something special in terms of the battery, PEM, inverter, etc (electrical engineers help me out here). Like for instance perhaps it will incorporate a bank of ultra capacitors to deliver the huge power needed for the 0-60 sprint.

    So as far as your chart goes your weight figures might need to come down a little bit and the price will need to go up a lot. I think it comes in under $100,000 which is a steal compared to the $1.7 million Bugatti Veyron it is supplanting but it will not be much under $100K.
     
  5. richkae

    richkae VIN587

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,917
    #5 richkae, Jan 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
    I think the weight numbers for the Model R are too optimistic. A 3200 cell battery is not going to be much less than 500 pounds.
    Also the range / kWh for the Model C ( especially the Model C-30kW ) seems very optimistic.

    The 0-60 time for the 45kW Model R is too pessimistic for a weight of 2245 pounds. 2245 pounds is about 20% less than the current Roadster, and a 45kWh battery at the same discharge rate is only 15% less than the current Roadsters 53. I think low 4s would be super easy, even cheaping out on the PEM/motor.

    All that said, I want one.
     
  6. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,424
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    I think they (and Panasonic) will try their best to get the ranges the same as the current Model S ranges (while the Model S ranges will increase in the meantime).
     
  7. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,162
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    3 door, not 5 door?
     
  8. jkirkebo

    jkirkebo Model S P85+ VIN 14420 EU

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    946
    Location:
    Fredrikstad, Norway
    And a sedan to boot. Won't sell in Europe at all. It needs to be a 5-door hatchback, like the Leaf.
    $4500 for CHAdeMO would be a rip-off compared to Nissans $700.
    240kW is way overkill standard in the 60kW version. Offer all battery pack levels with a cheaper ~100KW motor&inverter and sell sport packs for the two larger ones. I'd be all over saving $2-3k here as even the Leaf is much faster than I ever need.
    Length at 431cm is somewhat too small, the Leaf is 445cm if I remember correctly. I wouldn't want an even smaller car.
     
  9. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,140
    Location:
    Germany
    I cannot see why CHAdeMO should be $4500. Its only a socket, a Can-bus and some software. price is most political. Maybe CHAdeMO charging station should be upgraded to support teslas socket with PLC communication. Its cheaper, because less stations involved compared to the number of cars being put on the streets.
     
  10. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,452
    Location:
    Germany
    Thanks for the feedback so far. I think we'll let discussion roll on a bit before I compile an update.
    Just one thing right now: To live the platform idea, IMO all cars must share a battery pack of uniform size & shape and a common chassis architecture (steel/aluminum). Hence the same wheel base and track. A 85kWh battery pack is out of reach as long as cell capacity is not increased by factor of 2, in comparison to the NCR-18650A with 3.1Ah.
     
  11. Lokolo

    Lokolo Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    Messages:
    123
    I love the Model S but being a graduate in his first job theres no way I can afford it. However, with a lot of saving and putting off buying a house I could afford the Bluestar. But as a 5 door hatchback type of person I wouldn't buy one if it doesn't come in this version.

    I currently have a 5 door Mazda3 hatchback and would expect the same next (something along the lines of what I have now or a Ford Focus).
     
  12. user497

    user497 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2009
    Messages:
    171
    I doubt the model R will be so cheap. They were able to sell 1,400 first generation roadsters above $100k so I doubt that they will drop the price that much if they make faster, longer ranged models. I could see a bigger, heavier, slower roadster in the $50k-$60k range but I don't think you will be seeing a roadster going 3.2s under $80k.
     
  13. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    2,052
    Location:
    Herndon, VA
    All I have to say is ....

    I hope that you are totally wrong with the Model C stuff. That would be very disappointing to me :(
     
  14. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2010
    Messages:
    2,990
    Location:
    Grimsby, Canada
    #14 Jaff, Jan 20, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2012
    Agree...not sure how you're going to either achieve those 0-60 times with a heavier car...not sure how you can hit the quoted price point with an all carbon fibre / aluminum body / chassis + the battery for 65k...hope I'm wrong though...

     
  15. Citizen-T

    Citizen-T Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,442
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    #15 Citizen-T, Jan 20, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2012
    Elon has definitely said that BlueStar would be a 5-door. Or, I would think it could be either 4 or 5 (like the previously mentioned Mazda3). I think it has to have both options to be truly successful.

    If only one, definitely the hatchback.

    Also, I think there will be a sport version of BlueStar (that seems to be the pattern), and I think all-wheel-drive is going to become an option for any Tesla after they develop it for the Model X.
     
  16. Lokolo

    Lokolo Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    Messages:
    123
    Well I like the style of the Mazda3 MPS.... so if they go for something like that I will definitely be pleased.
     
  17. richkae

    richkae VIN587

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,917
    #17 richkae, Jan 20, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2012
    Here are some issues with your proposed dimensions:

    First the Model R - I think you will have a hard time fitting a 2+2 seating arrangement into a 162 inch long car ( maybe you can, but it may be a Fugly shooting brake thing - yuck )

    Second I think you will have a hard time making an aerodynamic 5 seat sedan 170 inches long. Length has advantages, the stubby back end of the Leaf hurts its aerodynamics - and its 175 inches long.
     
  18. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    7,842
    Location:
    Portland, Maine, USA
    So, what would your vision of the Model C be? VolkerP's assembling and reporting, not opining (much).
     
  19. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    4,279
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    As a 5 door hatch person myself let me suggest VW. Golf/GTI is really nice. Although the new gen Focus is also right there.

    DISCLAIMER: I own a 2006 GTI.
     
  20. Kevin Harney

    Kevin Harney Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    2,052
    Location:
    Herndon, VA
    Perhaps I am misunderstanding his points but I thought the Model C was supposed to be similar to the BMW 3 series in size and preformance and cost. I see none of that in his idea. Perhaps the "his Bluestar" is two models away ? I see Model X we know to be the CUV, Models R and C which are the 3.0 Roadster and the sedan/coupe/convertible similar to the BMW 3 series which should be on the same platform. Is his bluestar after that ?
     

Share This Page