Unpopular Opinion: The 3 is a $30k car and was built as such

[CMoZ]

And you're using a BMW as your reference for Quality. Now that's funny.

You're missing the point. I'm pointing out the "Quality" of a traditional $60K "luxury" car

Google Tesla Auto Wipers. I think you are in the Minority.
The list is too long to go into Audio issues (some have been possibly addressed).

You can Google "Flat earth" and get a ton of results too. That hardly proves anything. I've done as you said and looked into it and the experiences I'm seeing people complain about I've never seen and like I said I've seen a lot of rain.

3 Jeeps, 1 Volt all had better panel alignment than either Model 3 or Model X.
When waiting for service I look around and let's just say each brand is consistent.

As someone who has worked in the auto industry and still has some friends who do this is laughable. It's interesting you should reference the body panels on Jeeps as the Cherokeep was notoriously bad for body panel alignment eg body panels Not lined up!!! but you can google for a ton more

The Tesla's are clearly rushed in assembly.

I really don't think this is the case. These are the kind of issues that show up when a new manufacturing line on something as complex as a car is new. ( And incidentally far less automated than had been planned, which contributes) but at the end of the day I think because of the spotlight that's been shined on Tesla and the ICE manufacturers stoking things to swing press to keep an upstart from eating their lunch the issues/inconsistency has been way overblown. That's not to say if you see an obvious issue you should just accept it but you should also not jump on everything panel gaps are a completely cosmetic thing over the years most manufacturers have had tolerances all over the map. for a long time Lexus was renowned because they gave an inordinate amount of care to panel gaps/alignment. Specifically the panel gap/alignment issue is WAY overblown and yet it's the thing most people are latching on to. It's honestly on the good side of average when you take all major manufacturers into account

 

[dww12]

And you're using a BMW as your reference for Quality. Now that's funny.

The Model 3 had the thinnest carpets I've ever seen. The Volt were double the thickness. And I suspect the carpeting in the car itself is thin too. Didn't know BMW went that cheap too.

Google Tesla Auto Wipers. I think you are in the Minority.
The list is too long to go into Audio issues (some have been possibly addressed).

3 Jeeps, 1 Volt all had better panel alignment than either Model 3 or Model X.
When waiting for service I look around and let's just say each brand is consistent.

I know it can happen occasionally with any brand, but it's pretty consistent with Tesla. It's not a show stopper for me, but you can clearly see a difference. You literally could use calipers on the Volt. On the Model 3 or X, you don't need a caliper to spot non uniform gaps.

The Tesla's are clearly rushed in assembly.

My 2013 Volt experience. Needed coolant burp within 6mo that took it to the shop for a week. 2 window regulators, rubber roof runner flew off, when taken to dealer for software patch to fix the coolant issue again as well as RECALL for engine running when in park dealer tried to charge 2hr labor.

My 2018 Volt experience. Coolant was not added from factory and first road trip stranded me on a Saturday night 100 miles from home. Had to find chargers to be able travel on battery (8 hrs of charge time). Dealer messed up service appt. 2x and did not have a loaner. Battery threw code after year one and had to have cell replaced. Dealer did not have a loaner, had car for two weeks.

Volt did not have power seats, memory seats, fast charging, insane stereo, supercar acceleration, great front visibility, sports car handling, glass roof, low trunk lift over, lane keeping was a joke, back seats were cramped and only sat 2. It did have blind spot monitoring which I miss, but that is the only thing I miss.

Both Volts were traded for Model 3s.

Model 3 experience. 2018 Door misaligned, fixed in 20 min at service center 2 days after delivery.

Model 3 2019. Door misaligned, glass chipped. Fix scheduled 1 week after delivery, estimate 90min while I wait.

There is no comparison.

 

[glide]

It’s a $20K car at best

 

[Scrannel]

Just took delivery of my 3 Performance. If you are a sports oriented driver you will very quickly realize this thing is a massive bargain. Alex Choi, a rich kid with all the toys, has a terrific vid on YouTube "Why I traded in my Audi RS7 for a Tesla Model 3". If you love spirited driving... steal this car!

 

[Petrocelli]

I paid around $63K for my Model 3 (Stealth after all tax incentives) and I'd say fit and finish wise it's an under $30K car (maybe under $20K car).

Performance
It handles like a $60K+ Car.
It accelerates like an $80K+ Car.
The gadgetry it has is like a $60K+ Car

Interior Materials
The carpets are what you find in a sub $20K car.
The Cabin noise due to lack of insulation you find in a sub $20k car
Deleted Homelink is like what you get in a sub $20k car

The Quality of Design is a mixed bag.
Bodily Injury due to a Crash is Top notch.
Despite having good ratings in Crash Prevention there are lot of questions on how reliable that is.
Some Gadgetry might cause more crashes than Prevent (Enhanced Summon, NoA, Phantom Braking, Odd Lane Assist).
Bumpers falling off at any price is unacceptable.
Underliner ripping off from big puddles at any price is unacceptable.
Frozen Windows is unacceptable, even other cars that do are not nearly as vulnerable
Frozen Charge Ports, really, the charge port (new rev does fix it).
Water dumping into trunk (not a show stopper, but really with a little thought could have been better)

The Quality of Assembly is a mixed bag.

Cracked Roofs unacceptable (possible design issue)
Panel Alignment issues unacceptable (many folks would have rejected both my Tesla's)
Paint issues unacceptable (pretty scary reports).
Damage during delivery and transportation unacceptable (this is where most issues are)​

Bugs
Auto Highbeam, might as well not have it (so it's like an under $20K car)
Auto Wipers, might as well not have it (so it's like an under $20K car)
Audio issues (way more than the norm)
Phantom Braking, no other car has this level of issues on ACC.

Service

Varies a lot. They are overwhelmed/overloaded because of some the issues above.

Somefolks are so overjoyed with Handling, Acceleration and Gadgetry, they are willing to look the other way on so many other aspects that clearly are not up to par for the price point.

For reference I just picked up a 2019 Chevy Volt Premier for $31K ($42K MSRP).
Let's just say the difference is night and day for cabin noise, bugs, fit, finish, assembly and delivery condition.

Excellent post.

 

[Lakeshow24]

I think my car is easily over $30k. delivery was pretty flawless except for the small scratches I found 3 days later in which the service center took care for me. To each his own.

Also want to add that this car feels superior than my previous car which was a Lexus RC350. oh and much faster as well.

 

[Petrocelli]

A car is worth whatever a willing buyer will pay for it.

If a couple hundred thousand people spend $50,000 on a car, then it is worth $50,000.

 

[mswlogo]

A car is worth whatever a willing buyer will pay for it.

If a couple hundred thousand people spend $50,000 on a car, then it is worth $50,000.

Valid point. But also keep in mind that, that some of that is based on future promises.

Like when FSD will be ready, HW3, known issues resolved in a timely manner. If I knew what I knew today I probably would have never bought what I did.

 

[George_Jetson]

Funny how when a thread is created discussing build quality, everyone has to bring in a variety of other excuses like how much tech a model 3 has compared to other cars. If the conversation just stayed on fit and finish, meaning paint & assembly, I think other manufacturers like Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, and even Mazda are still doing it better for less money. If you try to cloud the issue with other features like tech and performance, you are missing the core of the discussion.

 

[Petrocelli]

A car is worth whatever a willing buyer will pay for it.

If a couple hundred thousand people spend $50,000 on a car, then it is worth $50,000.

Funny how when a thread is created discussing build quality, everyone has to bring in a variety of other excuses like how much tech a model 3 has compared to other cars. If the conversation just stayed on fit and finish, meaning paint & assembly, I think other manufacturers like Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, and even Mazda are still doing it better for less money. If you try to cloud the issue with other features like tech and performance, you are missing the core of the discussion.

I agree with you, but the question is whether a Tesla is worth $xx,xxx.

My point is that the "fit and finish" issues are priced into the car. Stated differently, if a Tesla had no fit and finish issues, and if Tesla had service centers equal to German luxury brands, the cost of the car would be higher.

 

[mswlogo]

Funny how when a thread is created discussing build quality, everyone has to bring in a variety of other excuses like how much tech a model 3 has compared to other cars. If the conversation just stayed on fit and finish, meaning paint & assembly, I think other manufacturers like Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, and even Mazda are still doing it better for less money. If you try to cloud the issue with other features like tech and performance, you are missing the core of the discussion.

See my earlier post.

I think most folks won’t argue that the car is worth the price as a whole.

But if you look at fit and finish in isolation then the Model 3 is not up to par for its price point.

Also another complication is what people paid wildly varies here. Some paid $35-ish while others paid $65-ish. Usually higher performance cars scale the materials used, insulation etc. Model 3 doesn’t (much).

So the $35k folks might think it’s acceptable, while the $65k might not.

The base car was targeted to be an under $35k car and it shows on all trims. And is somewhat under par in fit and finish even at the $35k price point (depending partly on your luck).

In my opinion, a perfect Model 3 at $35k is still shy on materials. Namely cabin insulation (which might even include suspension isolation) and carpeting.

I think a dynamic air suspension offered on higher trims could make the Model 3 justify the price on higher trims.

 

[mongo]

remember that half this car is just battery cost that youre paying for. its a good product for the price. there really isnt anything luxurious about tesla's but the technology is superior by far.

Less that 1/3 of the cost is the battery (ignoring the other electronics in the pack).
Pack cost is <$125/kwh * 75 kWh = <$9,375

We think at the cell level probably we can do better than $100/kWh maybe later this year … depending upon [stable] commodity prices…. [W]ith further improvements to the cell chemistry, the production process, and more vertical integration on the cell side, for example, integrating the production of cathode and anode materials at the Gigafactory, and improved design of the module and pack, we think long-term we can get below $100/kWh at the pack level. Which is really the key figure of merit for a car. But long-term meaning definitely less than 2 years.

$100/kWh Tesla Battery Cells This Year, $100/kWh Tesla Battery Packs In 2020 | CleanTechnica

 

[earthwormjim]

If we're ignoring the drivetrain when comparing price to other cars, I think the Standard Range and Standard Range + are priced right around with how they feel on the inside. It feels like and sounds like a $35k car when you sit inside of it.

It feels like to me, the cheapest parts of the Tesla interior, are nicer than the cheapest parts of a 3 series, Lexus IS/ES or Audi A4 interior, and definitely nicer than an optioned out Camry or Accord.

I can't find any parts of the Tesla interior that feel overly plasticky, at least when talking about parts that are within reach that you can touch while seated. The plastics that are used, are either soft touch, or feel like they have mass. The other 3 brands do have some parts that feel overly plasticky, especially Lexus. However, the nicest parts of those 3 brands interiors are much nicer than what Tesla has put in, especially with regards to the leather/pleather that is used, and the stalks on their steering columns. So the minimum quality is nicer on the Tesla, but the upper end of the luxury bits are nicer in the other brands.

The other 3 brands do a better job with making the interior road noise timbre more pleasant than Tesla does too. Most of them are quite a bit heavier though; the SR+ is only around 3500 pounds which is pretty good considering how heavy a battery pack is.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Agree that the Model 3 was designed to hit a price point near $30.000. No shame there.

Like to see someone show me another car, priced under $37,000 that provides a better level of performance and handling, gets better running efficiency and gets the driving experience and prestige better than driving a Tesla.

I understand that snowflakes can obsess about a tiny scratch or rub mark, that all the panels don't fit perfectly, or that delivery was delayed a few days, but to me, they are totally missing the point of moving to non city polluting electric transportation.

Like most things in life, you can spend all your time obsessing about a tiny scratch, or enjoy the amazement of moving to all electric personal transportation.

People can cling to their old gassers, and pine for every car to be perfect, but these cars are our future, and they are pumping them out like crazy.

My comparison was just driving a friends older accord. Hated the throttle response, it downshifted all the time, struggeling to even pull itself up relatively minor hills. The technology was nothing like Tesla. Cruise control could get you killed, pollution spewed out the exhaust pipe, lighting was terrible, stereo could not hold onto a channel, had to deal with a smelly gas station and the sunroof leaked both air and water. Carpet was thin, seats poorly adjustable, no backup camera, and the windows went up and down slowly. Car was totally boring to drive, no excitement or enthusiasm. Handling was vague and gave almost no feedback. The car received absolutely no factory upgrades or improvements since it left the factory. No way in the same league as a $35,000 Tesla.

All this self importance over a tiny scratch or a misaligned panel is getting a little old.

 

[smak]

Like you wouldn't take a Democratic primary poll of 1 person, and then if they said Bernie Sanders you'd report that Bernie got 100%, the same is true for your car.

Your problems, or your perfect car don't really matter in the long run.

Saying Tesla has a problem based on your 1 car is meaningless.

 

[AdamVIP]

I do not consider the Model 3 to be luxury. The only area they compete is in initial price. The interiors are not up to snuff material wise and the build quality still isn't there for a good portion of the bits.

All that said I still like my car. I bought it for the power train and it hasn't disappointed me there yet. There's no other car that will go 0-60 in 3.2 seconds for this low of a cost.

 

[mswlogo]

Completely Disagree. For the same money, there isn't a car out there that has this much tech, safety, style and performance......O....then through in the fact that this car changes every other month and gets cheaper as we own it. Worth every penny of $45k and very fairly priced, again, strictly my opinion

Did I say it was not worth the price. I said Performance was worth $60-$80K.

But fit an finish. Don't kid yourself, it's sub $30K quality materials and QA. It needs work.

A lot of it, is assembly and delivery.

I just bought an X for nearly $100K, I have scheduled an appoint to fix some things, that shouldn't be.
I also fixed a few things that just shouldn't be. Like a Door Gasket that was half glued on, are you kidding me?
Rubber boots that were not on correctly. Also poorly designed.

I'd really like them to fix alignment issues we trims and handles, but the FWD work perfect and I don't want them to mess with those and will just live with the sloppy alignment. I also fixed gaskets on the FWD that were "bunching up".

I have not had to bring a car in for anything related to manufacturing, EVER !! Two car family for 40 years.

GM, VW, Audi, Jeep. And those are noted to be some of the WORST brands over a very wide price range.

 

[mswlogo]

You're missing the point. I'm pointing out the "Quality" of a traditional $60K "luxury" car



You can Google "Flat earth" and get a ton of results too. That hardly proves anything. I've done as you said and looked into it and the experiences I'm seeing people complain about I've never seen and like I said I've seen a lot of rain.



As someone who has worked in the auto industry and still has some friends who do this is laughable. It's interesting you should reference the body panels on Jeeps as the Cherokeep was notoriously bad for body panel alignment eg body panels Not lined up!!! but you can google for a ton more




I really don't think this is the case. These are the kind of issues that show up when a new manufacturing line on something as complex as a car is new. ( And incidentally far less automated than had been planned, which contributes) but at the end of the day I think because of the spotlight that's been shined on Tesla and the ICE manufacturers stoking things to swing press to keep an upstart from eating their lunch the issues/inconsistency has been way overblown. That's not to say if you see an obvious issue you should just accept it but you should also not jump on everything panel gaps are a completely cosmetic thing over the years most manufacturers have had tolerances all over the map. for a long time Lexus was renowned because they gave an inordinate amount of care to panel gaps/alignment. Specifically the panel gap/alignment issue is WAY overblown and yet it's the thing most people are latching on to. It's honestly on the good side of average when you take all major manufacturers into account

Your example is 4 years out. Show something more current. I'm sure there are exceptions. Tesla is routinely poor.

Yes there was a Period where initial round two of WK2 Jeeps (MY14) had body panel alignment issues (mostly Tailgate and taillight). But Tesla is WAY worse than Jeep was at it's worst. Tesla has issues all over the car. Jeeps also compaints of orange peel, which is a pretty common problem, and never bothered me. But rarely parts not painted, dirt under paint, drips, mismatched panels (especially white), scraps etc. I've been on the Jeep for forums for 6 years and those issues are long gone. It was a new plant and took a 1-2 years to resolve. This has gone on way to long with Tesla.

Model 3 does not touch a $60K luxury car with materials and workman ship. Not even close. The Model X I think has materials of $60K car but still has a lot of workman ship issues.

Take any other brand randomly and a few Tesla Samples and I think you'll see huge differences.

Fanboys making excuses for them only defers the problem. It needs to be better. Jeep had issues and they addressed them.

 

[vickh]

I paid around $63K for my Model 3 (Stealth after all tax incentives) and I'd say fit and finish wise it's an under $30K car (maybe under $20K car).

Performance
It handles like a $60K+ Car.
It accelerates like an $80K+ Car.
The gadgetry it has is like a $60K+ Car

Interior Materials
The carpets are what you find in a sub $20K car.
The Cabin noise due to lack of insulation you find in a sub $20k car
Deleted Homelink is like what you get in a sub $20k car

The Quality of Design is a mixed bag.
Bodily Injury due to a Crash is Top notch.
Despite having good ratings in Crash Prevention there are lot of questions on how reliable that is.
Some Gadgetry might cause more crashes than Prevent (Enhanced Summon, NoA, Phantom Braking, Odd Lane Assist).
Bumpers falling off at any price is unacceptable.
Underliner ripping off from big puddles at any price is unacceptable.
Frozen Windows is unacceptable, even other cars that do are not nearly as vulnerable
Frozen Charge Ports, really, the charge port (new rev does fix it).
Water dumping into trunk (not a show stopper, but really with a little thought could have been better)

The Quality of Assembly is a mixed bag.

Cracked Roofs unacceptable (possible design issue)
Panel Alignment issues unacceptable (many folks would have rejected both my Tesla's)
Paint issues unacceptable (pretty scary reports).
Damage during delivery and transportation unacceptable (this is where most issues are)​

Bugs
Auto Highbeam, might as well not have it (so it's like an under $20K car)
Auto Wipers, might as well not have it (so it's like an under $20K car)
Audio issues (way more than the norm)
Phantom Braking, no other car has this level of issues on ACC.

Service

Varies a lot. They are overwhelmed/overloaded because of some the issues above.

Somefolks are so overjoyed with Handling, Acceleration and Gadgetry, they are willing to look the other way on so many other aspects that clearly are not up to par for the price point.

For reference I just picked up a 2019 Chevy Volt Premier for $31K ($42K MSRP).
Let's just say the difference is night and day for cabin noise, bugs, fit, finish, assembly and delivery condition.

It's like a hot girl, you're willing to look past the psycho issues, up to a point.

 

[Petrocelli]

I just bought an X for nearly $100K, I have scheduled an appoint to fix some things, that shouldn't be.
I also fixed a few things that just shouldn't be. Like a Door Gasket that was half glued on, are you kidding me?
Rubber boots that were not on correctly. Also poorly designed.

I'd really like them to fix alignment issues we trims and handles, but the FWD work perfect and I don't want them to mess with those and will just live with the sloppy alignment. I also fixed gaskets on the FWD that were "bunching up".

I have not had to bring a car in for anything related to manufacturing, EVER !! Two car family for 40 years.

Watch this video of a Tesla Model 3 assembly.

Then watch this video of a Mercedes C Class assembly.