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UP of Michigan to receive its first fast DC charger but..

specialgreen

Member
Jan 21, 2020
45
81
Minneapolis MN
Per the linked article, the grant requires each applicant to pay 1/3 of the project cost. Most applicants list "two chargers" (probably "one charger with two connectors: CCS and Chademo"), and were awarded a grant of $40k-$50k (or total project cost of $60k-$75k). That's in-line with a single $40k 100A/125A DCFC unit plus install.

The station in Norway was awarded a grant of only $26.3k, so the total project cost is about $39.5k. That might purchase a 50kw unit, but not install it, so unfortunately I think 50kw is probably out of the picture.

While most awarded sites list "two chargers," Norway MI lists "one charger". If that means one connector, then it could be the Bosch EL-52240 (CCS only), or the similar Delta 25kw unit. Hopefully not the case. Not sure if it's too late for them to crowd-source the extra $2500 to upgrade to the Delta model with CCS+Chademo. :) Delta Wallbox 25kW DCFC 25kW - Dual Port
 

Billyk24

Member
Jan 25, 2019
251
187
16001
It is got to be a 25kW charger based upon the grant figure. Better than nothing and L2 chargers. I am aware of another Michigan based EV car charger vendor that is actively scouting and wants to install their chargers elsewhere in the UP. Time will tell when and if this occurs.
 

SSedan

Active Member
Jul 24, 2017
2,948
2,323
Greenville Wisconsin
Might be technically better than nothing but not practically.
Slow, near no real facilities and not easily accessible to the overwhelming majority of long range EVs on the road today.
This is an enrichment scheme for those building it not a legit EV project.
 

Billyk24

Member
Jan 25, 2019
251
187
16001
This is an enrichment scheme for those building it not a legit EV project.----would you like to explain this enrichment scheme in detail when Tesla loses money on their Supercharging network? Better yet, when is the state of "Wisconsin going to use their 9 million VW dollars for electric car chargers?
 
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Watts_Up

Active Member
Mar 4, 2019
3,434
2,339
In a galaxy far, far away
This is an enrichment scheme for those building it not a legit EV project.
----would you like to explain this enrichment scheme in detail when Tesla loses money on their Supercharging network?
Better yet, when is the state of "Wisconsin going to use their 9 million VW dollars for electric car chargers?
Tesla don't spend any money on TV advertisement, and build Superchargers instead, which might be smarter.

Companies try to spend any profits they make doing something useful or buying new assets to avoid paying taxes.

So I'm not really sure if Tesla really loses money, however I imagine that what we pay when using a SC barely pay for the lease and electricity.
 

Billyk24

Member
Jan 25, 2019
251
187
16001
Tesla don't spend any money on TV advertisement, and build Superchargers instead, which might be smarter.

Companies try to spend any profits they make doing something useful or buying new assets to avoid paying taxes.

So I'm not really sure if Tesla really loses money, however I imagine that what we pay when using a SC barely pay for the lease and electricity.
Which brings up the question, do you have any idea what it cost to install six SC at a location?
 

SSedan

Active Member
Jul 24, 2017
2,948
2,323
Greenville Wisconsin
This is an enrichment scheme for those building it not a legit EV project.----would you like to explain this enrichment scheme in detail when Tesla loses money on their Supercharging network? Better yet, when is the state of "Wisconsin going to use their 9 million VW dollars for electric car chargers?
Did a koolaid spill stop you from seeing this is NOT a Tesla supercharger site?

This looks to be a 25kw site CCS/Chademo and if it were just 6 miles or so further west it would be in a bigger town situated on the major north/south and east/west routes thru the area.

If you really wanted to halfass more I suppose you could.

A legitimate attempt to bring EV charging to such a remote area should be nearer the crossroads, should be nearer facilities, should include capability to support the far and away most numerous EVs on the road...........
This is just checking boxes and I would be interested to see links between those involved, betting someone's brother has the electrical contract and cousin has the concrete..........
 

Tectonic

Member
Jan 27, 2020
249
473
Colorado
It will be better than existing options, but the only legitimate excuse for installing a 25 kW DCFC in 2020 should be if only 3-phase power is unavailable (and thus a 50 kW charger isn't feasible). I don't know, but I'm guessing that's not a limitation here.

But hey, on the bright side, the 50 kW (well typically more like 40 kW) limit of the Tesla CHAdeMO adapter won't be a problem here! :)
 

sdoorex

Member
Feb 25, 2015
315
934
Front Range, CO
Per the linked article, the grant requires each applicant to pay 1/3 of the project cost. Most applicants list "two chargers" (probably "one charger with two connectors: CCS and Chademo"), and were awarded a grant of $40k-$50k (or total project cost of $60k-$75k). That's in-line with a single $40k 100A/125A DCFC unit plus install.

The station in Norway was awarded a grant of only $26.3k, so the total project cost is about $39.5k. That might purchase a 50kw unit, but not install it, so unfortunately I think 50kw is probably out of the picture.

While most awarded sites list "two chargers," Norway MI lists "one charger". If that means one connector, then it could be the Bosch EL-52240 (CCS only), or the similar Delta 25kw unit. Hopefully not the case. Not sure if it's too late for them to crowd-source the extra $2500 to upgrade to the Delta model with CCS+Chademo. :) Delta Wallbox 25kW DCFC 25kW - Dual Port

From the MI EGLE:
Under the program, EGLE, the host site owner and the electric utility that serves the site will each pay for about a third of the cost to install the DC fast charger – the fastest of three options to charge a vehicle battery.

As well as:
The grant amount will be the lesser of 33.3 percent of the total cost or a direct match of the amount the electric utility is paying, up to $70,000, and can only be used for eligible EV charging equipment.

That would mean the charger install in Norway will cost around $78,933.90, not $39.5k, because the city is paying 1/3, the utility is paying 1/3, and the grant is covering the remaining 1/3. That should be enough to cover the install of one ChargePoint Express 250. Further, the grant requires a minimum capability of 50 kW with the potential to upgrade to 100+ kW in the future:
D. Charging Station Definition and Eligible Associated Equipment
A charging station is a system of components that provide a DC (direct current) output that is supplied to a vehicle for the purpose of recharging electric vehicle storage batteries. Specific to this RFP, the charging station must be able to charge a light-duty vehicle with a minimum battery capacity of 60kWh and charge at a minimum of 50kW but future-proof to 100kW or greater. Also, the charging station must always be available to the public.
 

Billyk24

Member
Jan 25, 2019
251
187
16001
Did a koolaid spill stop you from seeing this is NOT a Tesla supercharger site?---Since Tesla has not moved on installing any chargers in the UP a DCFC charger is better than NO Tesla charger in the UP. Been thru the area many times as I have a home in Wisconsin 80 miles from this location. The drive up from Green Bay can go thru this location.
 
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specialgreen

Member
Jan 21, 2020
45
81
Minneapolis MN
Thanks, sdoorex, I had not read that article carefully. I misread, and total project cost is about 3x the grant amount. I did read about 5 articles on the grant, including the state press release and had not seen any mention of the 50kw requirement. It's good to hear it's in the RFP.

Regarding Norway being a bad location, I think it's OK (compared to Iron Mountain). If you're heading through Iron Mountain, then you're probably passing near Norway anyways. Only if you were passing between 70 on the west side, and 95 north, would you not head near Norway (and if you were passing between 41 and 2, then it's better than IM).

The siting decision can also come down to who the utility is. For example, Norway MI has municipal power, whose interests are tied to the city council and businesses. Iron Mountain is We Electric territory.
 

specialgreen

Member
Jan 21, 2020
45
81
Minneapolis MN
I watched the Norway city council's meeting, approving buying their charger:

(skip to 39:30). The charger is a Chargepoint, and the device costs $56,079. I think that sounds like probably the Chargepoint Express 250/CPE250, which does have a Chademo connector. That unit looks like a good fit for this grant, because the grant requires 50kw today, but expandability to 100+kw. The CPE250 can be expanded by having a second unit installed, and the two units collectively can deliver 100+kw balanced across 2 vehicles.

egle-image-JHFamilyStoresCadillacDCFC_698948_7.jpg


They approved the purchase on 8/17/2020, and they were planning a follow-up meeting for 8/19 to discuss four possible locations.
 
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specialgreen

Member
Jan 21, 2020
45
81
Minneapolis MN
I cruised around Norway MI this morning, looking for signs of construction. At the northwest corner of 6th Ave & Main St, there are some cones marked "Norway DPW", and a cut-out of asphalt in front of a set of utility contactors on the corner.

PUmyLqj.png


There is also a fresh trench cut from there west along 6th Av to a pair of utility poles.

W7rGK89.png


This could be unrelated to the new charger, but it's the only new work I could see today.
 

Billyk24

Member
Jan 25, 2019
251
187
16001
That location is one block south of US-2 which is heavily traveled in the east-west direction. The location is also two blocks from US-8 which could be used for those traveling from or to Green Bay Wisconsin., A hardware store is in the background of the previous photo and a post office is on the next block.
 

specialgreen

Member
Jan 21, 2020
45
81
Minneapolis MN
Just an update that the charger in Norway is reportedly done. It's a Chargepoint Express 250 (so 156A). The Norway City Council will vote on what to charge at their next meeting (12/21, I believe), then it will be turned-on.
 
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Tectonic

Member
Jan 27, 2020
249
473
Colorado
Just an update that the charger in Norway is reportedly done. It's a Chargepoint Express 250 (so 156A). The Norway City Council will vote on what to charge at their next meeting (12/21, I believe), then it will be turned-on.

Good news, but couldn't they decide on the rate before it was installed? :rolleyes:
 

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