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UP of Michigan to receive its first fast DC charger but..

Discussion in 'Midwest/Great Lakes' started by Billyk24, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. Billyk24

    Billyk24 Member

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  2. sdoorex

    sdoorex Member

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    #22 sdoorex, Dec 22, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
    The video for the city council of Norway for the 12/21 meeting is now online. They begin discussing the ChargePoint charger at 33:22 into the video. TL;DW:

    ChargePoint rates:
    • $0.3149/kWh - on-peak
    • $0.2456/kWh - off-peak
    • $2.20 connection fee
    Rates cover costs of electricity and station. No indication of activation date.



    I think they will end up rounding up the cost to the nearest cent so $0.32/kWh on-peak and $0.25/kWh off peak unless ChargePoint can handle sub-cent charges.

    The rates should show up on the rate sheet here soon: The City of Norway, MI
     
    • Informative x 3
  3. Tectonic

    Tectonic Member

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    Those kWh rates look reasonable, but I've never understood why some sites charge a connection fee. Are they charged that by ChargePoint? Otherwise, it just seems to incentivize longer charges when it would be better to incentivize shorter charges...
     
  4. sdoorex

    sdoorex Member

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    I think connection fees are needed to offset demand charges which are charged by utilities on top of the kWh rate and are determined by the peak demand in kW. Those demand charges can be reduced by usage of a battery to handle spikes in peak demand, which is something that the bigger Tesla Supercharger sites are starting to do.
     
  5. Tectonic

    Tectonic Member

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    I understand they have to pay demand charges, but does it cost the city more if someone does two 10 kWh charges vs one 20 kWh charge? If not, then the connection fee only serves to incentivize people to sit there and charge to 100%, thus hogging the resource, compared to adding fees by the minute or just charging by the kWh. Of course, there may not initially be too much competition for use of this charger in Norway, MI. :)
     
  6. sdoorex

    sdoorex Member

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    Good point about it encouraging longer charges but per minute charges on top of per kWh charges aren’t particularly popular with EV owners.
     
  7. specialgreen

    specialgreen Member

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    I spoke with City Manager Anderson last week. I mentioned that with the session fee, if a charge session is interrupted and restarted, then he may have to take phone calls from customers. We also talked about per-KWH vs. per-minute. I mentioned that the per-KWH approach can lead to some jerk with a slow-charging Chevy Bolt(*) staying plugged-in for an extra 80 minutes, because it doesn't cost them anything extra. He actually felt that could be desirable if they are dining and shopping... obviously the city has different priorities. But he mostly wanted to stick with the exact recommendation which their power co-op had prepared.

    95% of the city's power comes from their hydro dam, so theoretically they shouldn't have to care much about demand, nor peak/offpeak. But it's very old tech, so no demand-response system.

    When I drive through Norway, I'll be cruising into town "on fumes." When I get up there, I may talk to them about getting a backup 240v option. If there was ever a problem with their charger, I would rather charge slowly for 3 hours than have to L1 overnight at America's Best (again). If anybody wants to help crowd-fund an L2/DC, let me know.


    (*)I can joke about it because I have a Bolt
     
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  8. mociaf9

    mociaf9 Active Member

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    No, 1 x 20kWh session vs 2 x 10kWh sessions shouldn't make a difference to the city's cost. The issue is that the station is going to be a pretty minimally utilized resource. I'm sure the rate schedule is designed to meet a certain minimum revenue threshold based on their expected number of charging sessions and kWhs of electricity dispensed per month. With more sessions, it's easier to get away from a pricey "connection fee" and instead make that money by spreading it out over all the volumetric charges (i.e. raising the price per kWh a little bit). But with a station that doesn't get many charging sessions, that isn't really a very good strategy.
     
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  9. Billyk24

    Billyk24 Member

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    Haven't turned on the station yet? Sad story. about 90 miles from my Wisconsin home.
     
  10. Tectonic

    Tectonic Member

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    In my experience there are 2 reasons for this:

    1) The big reason is that the combined rate (time + kWh) is often way too high (often > $0.50/kWh)
    2) Sometimes the charger isn't working properly, and time-based rates penalize the user for this (when they're already being penalized by slow charging).

    At the end of the day, per kWh rates and idle fees (as Tesla uses except in states where they must charge by time) end up being the most straightforward in most cases. But it does get tricky when there's only one charger available, because someone might really need it. BC Hydro chargers in Canada have a rule of 40 minutes or 80% charge (whichever comes first) when someone is waiting, which seems like a good system, but I think compliance is on the honor system.
     
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  11. Billyk24

    Billyk24 Member

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    Charging station went live today-01/04/2021
     
    • Informative x 5
  12. specialgreen

    specialgreen Member

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    Had to get my deer; then it was Christmas. Then had to watch the last Packer game. so... guess it's time ta finish up that charger, now, eh?
     
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  13. sdoorex

    sdoorex Member

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    • Like x 1
  14. Randy Spencer

    Randy Spencer Active Member

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    Has anyone actually TRIED it? Please post to PlugShare.

    It's still not feeding into ABetterRoutePlanner
     
  15. sdoorex

    sdoorex Member

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    It's not online on ChargePoint's site yet either.
     
  16. specialgreen

    specialgreen Member

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    I'd like to use Norway as an example when talking to some other Yooper towns. Anybody who charges there, please consider visiting Blackstone Company (pizza/brewpub), Viking Motel, Northern Expressions, Norway Mercantile, True Value or Pat's Foods, etc.. Mention that you're there charging your car and ask them to thank Downtown Development and the city council. That will help get more chargers.
     
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  17. sdoorex

    sdoorex Member

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    Norway is online today per ChargePoint. A bit more info on the pricing:

    Price (Set by City of Norway MI)

    Energy
    Weekdays 12am - 8am $0.24560/kWh
    8am - 8pm $0.31490/kWh
    8pm - 12am $0.24560/kWh
    Weekends 12am - 12am $0.24560/kWh

    Min / Max Fees
    Flat Fee $2.20 per session
     
    • Informative x 3
  18. Randy Spencer

    Randy Spencer Active Member

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    Sure beats slow charging at a campground or the very limited J1772s up there.
     
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  19. Tectonic

    Tectonic Member

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    Yes, but with a single charger, you kind of need a backup plan, in case it happens to be in use (or broken). Too bad there's no co-located J1772. Still, a step in the right direction!
     
  20. Billyk24

    Billyk24 Member

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    They would need more grant money to fund additional changers. Current charger is not located where bathrooms or food service is. One has to walk 1-1.5 blocks to gas station for this. McDonalds is like 4 blocks away on US2. The location is not well lighted for night time use.
     

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