-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
UP vs MPP Coilover
- Thread starter tkhan006
- Start date
-
- Tags
- coils suspension fix
MasterC17
Active Member
I'm fully convinced at this point that you've done no back to back testing between the "KW product" and the various other options that you keep plugging.
Every single person I've spoken to who has installed anything besides the "KW product" or the Redwood's has had issues with NVH, excess corrosion, or flat-out failure of components.
I don't think that KW became the giant that they are by providing "very average" products. And there is a reason why they are so popular in Europe.
Just because the Ohlin's R&T is a good damper (which, I agree, it is), does not mean that the complete package will be superior in any way to the existing option(s). We will have to wait and see, but jumping to conclusions isn't beneficial for anyone.
You sure seem to enjoy snubbing the "KW product" at every opportunity, though.
P3D-R
Closed
100% with you. Off the shelf KW's V3's, in my experience, have always been great on the street for the mass market consumer which is what most people will identify with. I don't think anyone can make a blanket statement because it's all subjective to your uses and needs. When it comes to a street damper I don't think MCS will win that challenge ironically. Guys like MPP and Redwood have developed their own formulas to elevate these product even further which I find very admirable. There is no way I would compare either of the MPP or RW custom products to the off the shelf products from the manufacturers themselves. That's just not a fair thing to do imo. I haven't found a brand or suspension product where they made the "perfect" product for every chassis in their catalog. What I do like is when companies come out who cater to a specific chassis and rework the product to be a great balance between comfort and performance.
Last edited:
I have extensive experience KW(there is not much besides the KW and Redwood) but not Redwood product line. My experience on the KW is not limited to the Model 3 platform but on BMW, Audi and VW since 2006. I have completely or partially reworked countless KW kits trying to make them better.
Attachments
SK360
Member
The guys obviously got a chip on his shoulder against some brands as can be read through the lines in some of his previous posts here and on FB. I’m busy doing a whole lot of winning on my KW’s, not just talking about them on the internet.
P3D-R
Closed
Both at some point but it was pulling teeth trying to get internal parts from KW. Even swapping springs matching up to the damping capabilities of a particular damper, vehicle application and intended use made a world of difference. However, the V3 seriously needed more damping for the added spring rates. Damping precision and consistency were lacking as well but short of moving to a monotube design there is nothing more it can be done within that twin tube design. Koni's didn't fair much better but was much easier to get parts and downtime was short.
MasterC17
Active Member
My question is have you taken a Model 3 with the "KW Product" and a Model 3 with another product (UP, MCS, etc) and actually tested them back to back for ride comfort, NVH, lap times, etc?
Here's my experience. The MCS 1WNR coilovers were .7 seconds faster than the MPP Comforts around VIR full. However, the MPP Sports were more than 3 seconds faster (to be fair on stickier tires) than the MCS.
The MCS were god-awful when it came to NVH. The ride comfort was stiff and non-compliant. My wife complained. The front struts were constantly making clunking and binding noises, though to be fair the rears were quiet. They were assembled by an MCS Dealer with MCS guidance and they both worked with me through the installation and tuning process. However, I eventually got fed up, spent ~$1,500 less, and went faster. The MPP's are silent and provide a much more comfortable ride.
I don't think it's fair to just blanket label a single suppliers products as inferior without considering the complete package. And what works on one platform may not work on another. From a consumer perspective, my experience with the MPP Coilovers was vastly superior to the MCS. I spent less money, had a complete bolt-in solution with recommended specs, and I have had a great experience when it comes to all of the things that matter to me. The MCS experience was far worse, they didn't have answers to a lot of my questions, we figured it out together, it required modifying the stock top hats, etc.
Ultimately, what might be important to you as a shop owner probably aren't the same things that are important to your customers.
My MCS experience is just the opposite of yours. Remember that MCS sells dampers. You have to work with your MCS dealer to complete it with mounts(optional) and height adjusters, then tune the complete system for your intended use. Although the MCS spherical mounts can add some NVH they are there to reduce bind in the suspension and to take away unwanted loads on the front dampers. With the stock upper mounts there is very little increase in NVH and with right spring rates the ride can be as compliant as factory if not better but you don't buy MCS for that purpose.
If you went faster on a softer setup(more mechanical grip), perhaps your MCS setup didn't have the right damper setting and/or had too high of spring rates for a given track. Have you tried lowering the spring rates on the MCS and see what you get? You need enough rates to support the vehicle's weight, yet soft enough given a bumpy track, matched to your damping, and especially your driving style. In my experience of setting up suspension the last one is the most important to make the car go fast.
P3D-R
Closed
I love the balance my MPP sports have between street and track as well as their silence. I am amazed at how well the damping works on the soft and stiff side. I just ran them at 3 open for compression and rebound at Buttonwillow yesterday, my first time driving at that track. When driving to and from the supercharger it was very tame. Much better than I expected. On the street I usually set them to 12 open R and C but this time did 10/10 and liked it even more.
MasterC17
Active Member
I appreciate the thoughtful response. I do think that the dealer was not prepared to deal with the intricacies of the Model 3. I believe I was the first retail customer to buy MCS dampers for the Model 3, and they had only briefly tested them on a car prior to selling them to me, so they probably weren't really in a position to be giving good advice at that point.
I imagine that you could get more out of the MCS dampers with further testing of spring rates and damper settings, but I guess that's something I just don't really have the time or desire to mess with.
We can get a good starting point with what came from the factory and calculations, but testing different spring rates to get it right is a lot of work. At the infancy of suspension tuning using custom dampers for a new vehicle tuners tend to rely on their own testing if they have a shop car or have to rely on customer feedback. Who has a 7 post shaker rig we can borrow?
Just got my MPP Comfort Coilovers installed and I'm super happy with them. Love the car stance, if anything front wheel may look a little tucked in, but otherwise super impressed with the product. Btw, I have 5mm spacers in front and 18mm in the back.
Despite being much lower, the ride is as much, if not more, comfortable and turning is noticeable improved with less roll. I think the car also bounces less over irregularities. The other thing I've noticed, and here is where I'd say is more comfortable than stock, is rough patches in the road feel less jarring than it used to.
Despite being much lower, the ride is as much, if not more, comfortable and turning is noticeable improved with less roll. I think the car also bounces less over irregularities. The other thing I've noticed, and here is where I'd say is more comfortable than stock, is rough patches in the road feel less jarring than it used to.
puffdaddy
Member
Add another MPP Sport to the poll. I put them on over the weekend and have been tweaking on damper settings. Running 12/10 front and 10/10 rear. Sharper steering response, flatter handling and still comfortable. LOVE it so far! Running it at recommended height with no scraping. Doubt I can go lower with my driveway...
BTW the customer service from Jesse is priceless
BTW the customer service from Jesse is priceless
After a four month wait I received my UP coilover set for my Model Y. Installed by a recommended shop (very experienced) in NJ/PA area. We have potholes here, move than you can imagine. The ride quality of the UP was way worse than OEM... really. Beware. When I hit a pothole (filled with water), the rear actually bangs (bottoms out?).
On the other hand, MPP is a Canadian firm with considerable experience in imperfect paved roads. This is the most important factor.
I'm saving up to replace UP with MPP. Of course, Ohlins is the best but not in the budget.
On the other hand, MPP is a Canadian firm with considerable experience in imperfect paved roads. This is the most important factor.
I'm saving up to replace UP with MPP. Of course, Ohlins is the best but not in the budget.
Ohlins makes the most grandiose claims and they certainly tout themselves as the best but that is not supported by user surveys or for that matter any other form of data. Advertising and claims are not the same thing as real and substantive evidence. If you poll individuals who've actually driven both, opinion is divided on which system rides better and it probably depends on where the systems are set, Wheel and Tire variables, and even the road on which the car is driven. In other words there has yet to be a truly scientific test of MPP versus Ohlins but the user reviews of MPP's coilover kits are probably the best I've ever seen for any aftermarket suspension modification. And that's before you get to their customer service which is also unbeatable.
P3D-R
Closed
1000% agree on the off the shelf kit. The Redwood Ohlins kit is far better tbh and great on the street. I don't think they've produced a kit for the track as yet that can compete with the MPP Sports valving though. Don't fret though, the Ohlins off the shelf vs MPP Sports test is coming. We've already done our independent testing with customer cars, on and off the track, and have the results but we're about to get another set in and I'm just gonna say F it and put them on one of our cars so we can do an unbiased comparison. We will have others drive them as well. Once the test is done, prior to publishing the results, we'll see the kits that we tested on. hehe.
The office owns 3 model 3's so we'll get it done and post it on YouTube so people can see. We might even have our fastest driver run them at a Tesla Corsa event just to get his overall thoughts on it. We're currently running MPP Sports and Super Sport springs and I have not seen a UP or Ohlins coilover take the fast line like he can with the MPP's. #kerbingftw!!!!
P3D-R
Closed
We had this issue with a client from a snowy area as well. I don't think the UP kit has enough stroke, not to mention coil bind and all kinds of other things that needed to be sorted. It's hard to keep track of what revision they are on. I think they changed the way the front spring interfaces with the top mount and I've seen some images where they redid the rear spring but again not certain. I don't know if they have in house shock engineers there like MPP does. An engineer who can wrench and drive fast to test products is bar none. cough cough, guys like Jesse and Sasha. That's why things just work!!!!!
Similar threads
