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vapor trail

Member
Sep 9, 2015
233
219
Roseville, CA
As far as I'm aware neither Model S or X have the cabin cameras present in 3/Y. I always thought that was an odd "feature" discrepancy, but never cared since I hardly planned on using my car in Musk's imaginary robotaxi fleet.

Now the camera is being enabled to monitor driver attention while driving?


What bugs me is the camera's potential role in advancing FSD to some more advanced level (I've given up on FSD ever being fully realized). Given the premium price of the Model S over the 3/Y and it's alleged position as the flagship Tesla model, it'd be dirty pool for Tesla to leave those of us with the Model S at a disadvantage based on feature sets.

Am I off base with my concerns? I'm hardly an AI or software engineer.
 
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travwill

Active Member
May 1, 2015
1,509
758
Marble Falls, TX
There’s speculation that the redesigned S/X will include an interior camera, but I don’t know if that has been confirmed.

Yeah the refresh S (and X) definitely seem to have an interior camera - can see it above the mirror on the website even (unless that is some ugly screw hole).
 

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vapor trail

Member
Sep 9, 2015
233
219
Roseville, CA
Well, if that's the case, if the new S is getting a camera and it's needed for FSD updates, what are they going to do for the rest of us schmucks with pre-update Model S models who've paid for FSD?

Recent changes like eliminating use of radar and utilization of cabin cameras to detect driver attention just speak to how undeveloped FSD has been all this time. I only hope that Telsa provides needed hardware updates for all of us who drank the kool-aid and funded this fantasy-ware, to keep our cars updated with the newest production fleet.
 

EVRider-FL

Member
Aug 18, 2015
479
273
South Florida
Well, if that's the case, if the new S is getting a camera and it's needed for FSD updates, what are they going to do for the rest of us schmucks with pre-update Model S models who've paid for FSD?

Where did you read that the interior camera would be needed for FSD updates? Tesla can use the camera for better driver monitoring, but that's not a requirement for using Autopilot or FSD.
 
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David_Cary

Active Member
Dec 17, 2012
1,231
757
Cary, NC
On the speculation side, turning on cameras for one set of cars and not being able to in another would seem to be a trial attorney's dream come true.

"So tell me Mr. Musk, you found it necessary to turn the camera on for most of your fleet to make FSD safe, did you not care about the people as driver or passenger for the S/X owners? Oh, you just wanted to better monitor drivers? So, when they are found to be asleep, do you wake them up or disable FSD? Of course you do... So would the camera have discovered there was no person in the driver's seat of my client's husband's car? And would that have disabled FSD and saved his life? Ah, ok. And $10k was not enough to pay for a $50 camera? And no one in 2018 had thought of driver monitoring cameras? Oh wait, you did for only some of your fleet.....

Oh you don't have the resources for that? Remind me sir what is the market cap of TSLA and how much stock do you own? And my client's dead husband who paid $10k for an option wasn't worth a $50 camera that you now admit is better since you turned it on....

And with that scenario posted, it is certainly possible that FSD updates will go to camera monitored drivers first. And maybe there will be divergence of features for the lifetime of the cars.
 

neo1738

New Member
May 29, 2021
1
4
Toledo
On the speculation side, turning on cameras for one set of cars and not being able to in another would seem to be a trial attorney's dream come true.

"So tell me Mr. Musk, you found it necessary to turn the camera on for most of your fleet to make FSD safe, did you not care about the people as driver or passenger for the S/X owners? Oh, you just wanted to better monitor drivers? So, when they are found to be asleep, do you wake them up or disable FSD? Of course you do... So would the camera have discovered there was no person in the driver's seat of my client's husband's car? And would that have disabled FSD and saved his life? Ah, ok. And $10k was not enough to pay for a $50 camera? And no one in 2018 had thought of driver monitoring cameras? Oh wait, you did for only some of your fleet.....

Oh you don't have the resources for that? Remind me sir what is the market cap of TSLA and how much stock do you own? And my client's dead husband who paid $10k for an option wasn't worth a $50 camera that you now admit is better since you turned it on....

And with that scenario posted, it is certainly possible that FSD updates will go to camera monitored drivers first. And maybe there will be divergence of features for the lifetime of the cars.
Problem is they aren't really responsible to go back in time to upgrade a safety feature. Did Chevy add air bags to all cars pre air bag? What about seat belts? We know they save lives why didn't you add them in. With this type of thing it seems easy to say litigation would be successful but the car has to pass laws at the time it was produced. They do have measures in place at the time it was produced and if you skirt that the liability is on you. Now in America you can sue for whatever you want but winning is another question.
 

2101Guy

Active Member
Jan 6, 2020
1,708
1,651
USA
My prediction: Later this year, in car cameras for Tesla will be like Caddy uses theirs: No hands on wheel needed if the camera verifies driver is attentive. (you know how Elon likes to rely solely on cameras with no other conflicting data)

For Teslas without interior camera, will still rely on steering wheel torque from driver hands.

In 2022, Tesla will offer (for $500 retrofit fee) interior cameras for older Teslas without cameras.
 

Ramona48

Member
Apr 16, 2019
100
106
76522
One can not have level 3 driving assistance if this car can not see in fog, snow, rain or head on bright sun light. For example, you are driving down highway 5 in Calif. And you come around a corner and suddenly hit heavy Tully fog. No place to pull over. What does the car do, suddenly stop in the road. How about a sudden heavy rain storm in the Midwest? Or a sudden snow storm with heavy fog in the northeast. The car needs the radar to 'see' in these situations. At least till the driver has a chance to stop safely.
 

AMPd

Active Member
Nov 27, 2012
4,510
3,838
Northern California
One can not have level 3 driving assistance if this car can not see in fog, snow, rain or head on bright sun light. For example, you are driving down highway 5 in Calif. And you come around a corner and suddenly hit heavy Tully fog. No place to pull over. What does the car do, suddenly stop in the road. How about a sudden heavy rain storm in the Midwest? Or a sudden snow storm with heavy fog in the northeast. The car needs the radar to 'see' in these situations. At least till the driver has a chance to stop safely.
Don’t worry full self driving is 3 months away! ... 6 months at most!
 

Dolemite

is my name
Sep 19, 2019
1,259
1,564
Left Coast
One can not have level 3 driving assistance if this car can not see in fog, snow, rain or head on bright sun light. For example, you are driving down highway 5 in Calif. And you come around a corner and suddenly hit heavy Tully fog. No place to pull over. What does the car do, suddenly stop in the road. How about a sudden heavy rain storm in the Midwest? Or a sudden snow storm with heavy fog in the northeast. The car needs the radar to 'see' in these situations. At least till the driver has a chance to stop safely.
Wrong thread but yes this is horrifying. Whenever I read stuff like this I just imagine a bunch of engineers somewhere in a back room ripping their hair out.
 
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hill

Active Member
Apr 21, 2015
1,322
678
Lake Forest, CA
Yeah the refresh S (and X) definitely seem to have an interior camera - can see it above the mirror on the website even (unless that is some ugly screw hole).
Great - now we'll have to bring one or 2 attachable manikin arms in order to stupidly defeat & over ride the system. what next!?! ..... the entire manikin?
;)
 
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