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Genedr

Member
Aug 20, 2014
81
44
NY, USA
One can not have level 3 driving assistance if this car can not see in fog, snow, rain or head on bright sun light. For example, you are driving down highway 5 in Calif. And you come around a corner and suddenly hit heavy Tully fog. No place to pull over. What does the car do, suddenly stop in the road. How about a sudden heavy rain storm in the Midwest? Or a sudden snow storm with heavy fog in the northeast. The car needs the radar to 'see' in these situations. At least till the driver has a chance to stop safely.
I thought its cameras PLUS neural network AI….not cameras alone.
 
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Oct 10, 2019
386
188
So-Cal
Additionally, data collected from the camera is not saved or transmitted unless data sharing is enabled.

The car doesn't work for crap if you turn off data sharing. With it off you lose maps, traffic and other stuff.
Wonder what would happen if you just tape over the camera? or take a pic of you holding the wheel with eyes wide open from the cameras angle then print out a tiny version of it and tape that to the camera.
I have AP1 so i don't have to worry about stupid crap like this but i think these are interesting ideas someone should try for science.
 
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Nolakai

Member
May 29, 2021
17
23
Southern California
None of this would be necessary if all drivers actually paid attention while they were driving. I get that the tech is cool, and the name FSD is misleading, but Tesla says again and again that the driver needs to be actually driving and ready to take control at any moment because the tech isn't there yet for a sci-fi driverless car. What's really puzzling to me is that one of the great things about Teslas is the driving experience. Driving is fun and a type of meditation (in that you are solely focused on what you're doing, not thinking about what you did last week, etc.) when you're actually engaged with it. Yes, great to stretch your legs with AP or cruise control, but if you're not up for driving, then why not take a cab or a bus or a plane or whatever? There are options! I've loved driving since I first learned in driver's ed in high school, in part because it's serious business -- we're in control of massive machines that could kill us or others if we're not careful. That's what makes it great. The stakes are high. We have to pay attention because the seriousness of the activity demands our attention.
 

rxlawdude

Active Member
Jul 10, 2015
2,741
1,958
Orange County, CA
The car doesn't work for crap if you turn off data sharing. With it off you lose maps, traffic and other stuff.
That sounds patently wrong. But correct me with a quote from a Tesla manual.

And publicly musing how to defeat a safety feature seems irresponsible. Like the idiots who sold steering wheel weights for defeating AP1.
 

xxxotic

Member
Feb 14, 2015
27
20
FL
Have my mannequin ready so I can sit in the passenger seat!



20200419_182309.jpg
 

Sbaimo

12/15 LR black/white 21” no FSD delivered 6/30
Jan 26, 2021
587
1,673
Hancock Park Los Angeles
I merely want to receive my new model S. After I get it, if there is a camera looking at me, I have the choice of putting a piece of tape on it or not.
 

domodan

Member
Jul 15, 2020
407
186
UT, United States
So I have a 2016 Model S with AP1. I use autopilot A LOT. One time, on the wide open highway, my 3 year old was in the backseat on the passenger side and needed something...I can’t remember what it was, but if I recall he was trying to hand me something that was about to make a major mess. At any rate, I engaged auto pilot and then quickly turned over my right shoulder to grab whatever it was... and the car IMMEDIATELY beeped loudly and displayed the “grab the wheel” message. It wasn’t the subtle light flashing that gets faster - it was IMMEDIATELY after I turned around, which was about 1 seconds after engaging autopilot. In that moment, I thought for sure there was a cabin camera that detected my turning around.
 
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linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
1,863
3,458
mtn view, ca
That sounds patently wrong. But correct me with a quote from a Tesla manual.

And publicly musing how to defeat a safety feature seems irresponsible. Like the idiots who sold steering wheel weights for defeating AP1.
I'd see it another way (IANAL, and maybe you are) - for one, his 'defeat' is obvious and no one is announcing anything novel, here ;) and for another, publishing exploits with the intent of the vendor fixing them is a White Hat(tm) activity and should be pretty safe.

btw, if I was coding the image side, I'd look for the necessary changes in 'the pixels' and any static images would quickly be detected. if the code is beyhond version 0.0, it should know what a static vs dynamic image is ;)
 

linux-works

Active Member
Dec 23, 2019
1,863
3,458
mtn view, ca
Presumably FSD will not work with tape over the camera. Maybe not even cruise control. That would be quite a step backwards...
I'm ok with fsd not working without a camera, as long as the user declines the wheel-tug-as-alive option. (if there is a button that tesla gives for this, I really hope they do...)

but don't degrade what we have now, for those that are ok with how the level 2 tesla works, today. its why I bought the car. not for the promise of anything more than l2 and not for fsd. its for the assists that it gives and it does it really really well.

I want to keep what I have. let the others pass me by, with whizz bang Driver-Face-Emotion-And-Intention ID(tm) and I'll enjoy the part-human, part-machine assist that we have right now. just give us a choice and it will really keep both camps happy. no reason not to.
 
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Randy Spencer

Active Member
Mar 31, 2016
3,529
3,539
Alameda, CA
Yeah, cabin camera is NOT for FSD but for FSD Beta. In the not TOO distant future when FSD arrives it won't matter if you have an S/X or a 3/Y. In the short run the cabin camera gives the majority of Tesla owners the ability to not have to yank the wheel every 10 seconds, in the long run we all crawl in back to take a nap.

Also in the short run the current S/X owners and anyone with black tape over their camera don't have to worry about Tesla watching you pick your nose. Hopefully they don't penalize people who don't want to be observed and allow current functionality as an option.
 

roblab

Active Member
Jul 15, 2008
3,556
2,624
Angwin (Napa Valley) CA
One can not have level 3 driving assistance if this car can not see in fog, snow, rain or head on bright sun light. For example, you are driving down highway 5 in Calif. And you come around a corner and suddenly hit heavy Tully fog. No place to pull over. What does the car do, suddenly stop in the road. How about a sudden heavy rain storm in the Midwest? Or a sudden snow storm with heavy fog in the northeast. The car needs the radar to 'see' in these situations. At least till the driver has a chance to stop safely.
I don't understand. You seem to think that the car can do something a human can't. Any driver hitting TULE fog immediately slows down, but as long as they're moving there's a chance they'll plow into the car in front. We just drive on, hoping the car ahead will drive on too. Stopping in the road almost guarantees you'll be rear-ended. These are all situations where a human is going to risk everything just as much as a car on autopilot will. Humans don't have radar, yet they've been navigating through these scenarios for years, vision only.

In low visibility situations, I would expect the car would set off an alarm and insist that the driver take over as it begins to slow.
 

ElectricIAC

Devil’s Advocate
Dec 31, 2019
2,327
602
DFW
Yeah, cabin camera is NOT for FSD but for FSD Beta. In the not TOO distant future when FSD arrives it won't matter if you have an S/X or a 3/Y. In the short run the cabin camera gives the majority of Tesla owners the ability to not have to yank the wheel every 10 seconds, in the long run we all crawl in back to take a nap.

Also in the short run the current S/X owners and anyone with black tape over their camera don't have to worry about Tesla watching you pick your nose. Hopefully they don't penalize people who don't want to be observed and allow current functionality as an option.
Yes. Camera should be absolutely optional for those who want the added capabilities of FSD beta.
 

Gimmethecash

Member
May 8, 2021
245
312
Pasadena, CA
I don't understand. You seem to think that the car can do something a human can't. Any driver hitting TULE fog immediately slows down, but as long as they're moving there's a chance they'll plow into the car in front. We just drive on, hoping the car ahead will drive on too. Stopping in the road almost guarantees you'll be rear-ended. These are all situations where a human is going to risk everything just as much as a car on autopilot will. Humans don't have radar, yet they've been navigating through these scenarios for years, vision only.

In low visibility situations, I would expect the car would set off an alarm and insist that the driver take over as it begins to slow.
I agree with most of this, but with radar, the car *can* do something a human can’t; it can “see“ the car/truck ahead that has stopped, massively slowed, or crashed in the fog and prevent the following car from plowing into it - or it can see the car two cars ahead that just slammed brakes or ran into something.

It still can’t do anything about getting hit by the cars behind, though, other than to warn, tighten the seatbelts & lock the doors for impact.
 
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