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Update: Model X has a single charger, but only 48A capable

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For the first time in 3+ years, I am seriously considering cancelling my reservation. I'm not even sure if I can but I spoke with my DES today and am awaiting a reply. VIN 131 already assigned. I can, almost on a weekly basis, drive more than 250 miles in a day. Not long distance, no superchargers around me, just a lot of driving. I have a break in the day that I expected to be able to plug in the HPWC (which I have already installed in two locations), and pick up an additional 50 miles in an hour. I can't see myself biting my nails every weekend, driving at 55 MPH, turning off the heat, etc just to get to my destination. With the reduced range of the MX, not charging to 100% all the time to save the battery life, uphill, downhill, headwind reductions, I was pushing its functional use already. This may be the last straw for me. Very expensive car, (I've also lost my $12k tax savings because of the delays), lots of new downsides without folding seats, 6 seat option with no armrests, no center console, etc. Very, very disappointing especially when some of this might be due to the poor communication from Tesla. It would be even worse if I canceled and then 60 days later they announce an upgrade to the charger to correct a problem they knew about. I'm not sure that you can find a more staunch supporter of Tesla but at some point it just doesn't work.
 
I wonder what the rational for the slow drip, drip of information is concerning the Model X? I've always assumed that they had/have a weak hand and are concerned about the stock price. Which is pretty weak, considering that Elon has always said he always looks at the long term.
 
Case in point, on Wednesday I took my 90% charged S85 around Fort Lauderdale, Florida and just driving around I got down to 20 miles left of rated range. This wasn't going crazy on a trip, just going around town and never leaving the county. No Supercharger around either, so when getting ready for dinner we took the ICE and my car to an HPWC and returned a couple hours later to pick my car up. Now, in this case, most could have charged at their destination, but it dual chargers enabled the car to be ready to go out after dinner where a single charger would not have (or required being extra conservative).

Now, in my personal life, needing the speed is a rare event and I would be fine with a 48 amp charge, but I can clearly understand that some will not. Hopefully a better solution comes along for those who need it.
 
I suspect they made the decision because they had decided to go with a a single charger and in the end couldn't source higher amperage chargers (supplier let them down). 48 amps is suspiciously close to 40 amps. It is possible you could use the 40 amp charger and tweak a few components here and there and make it a 48 amp charger. Just a wild assed guess...

It gets hot enough with the wire gauge it's got with 40A. I wouldn't want to add any more amps, plus you'd have to hack on some 60A Hubble connector to make it work. There is no 14-70 outlet.
 
I agree with @ohmmna about the benefits of faster 80A charging at destinations, and that is in part why I had Dual Chargers installed in my S and also installed an 80A HPWC at my house.
@O-G, have you considered ordering a Model S90 instead of an X? You could get 80A charging, fold down seats, and save thousands!
 
This is actually going to be an issue for us, as well. There aren't enough Supercharger stations to get us to our destination in MO where my folks live. We drive down there only about 3 times a year, but that's going to be 3 times where I was planning on topping up at a DC between a long stretch without an SC. Having only 48A would mean a 2hr charge, instead of a 1hr. With 2 kids under 4, this is kind of a problem...since we already would have stopped to charge a couple times.

Of course, we still need the SC in Des Moines before we can make the drive at all.
 
It gets hot enough with the wire gauge it's got with 40A. I wouldn't want to add any more amps, plus you'd have to hack on some 60A Hubble connector to make it work. There is no 14-70 outlet.

IIRC: If you are pulling 72AMPS (speculated original X on board charger) it is either from a level 2/3 charger or a High Power Tesla wall unit (100amp) either of which have proper gauge wire.

Agree about Destination chargers: My 'D" goes on the trips that are out of SC range as it has dual chargers. Would not consider single charger P85+ trips where I could not almost exclusively use SCs.
 
It's disappointing that Tesla has decided to go with an onboard charger that is less capable than the Roadster.

  • Supercharger coverage is still very thin. And there may not be a Supercharger on your direct route even in regions that are well covered.
  • With a 70-80A station you can get a meaningful charge over lunch or dinner. Anything lower and overnight is your only option.
  • A Supercharger install is >$100K compared to <$5K for an 80A HPWC. Over time there will be more HPWCs than Superchargers simply based on the economics.

As batteries get bigger we need faster charging, not slower.
 
this is basically the same discussion we had here over and over about dual vs single charger. Fact is 40 or 48 Amp charging is plenty for pretty much everyone except very few people. I know I know many will reply with examples of where only 80 Amp will cut it and 40 won't. Just as much as one can make up scenarios where 80 Amp just won't cut it. People sleep at night and the amount of time we sleep is plenty to charge a 90 kWh battery. And that's the situation for almost all Model S owners.

Remember, Tesla has charging data from every single owner over the last years. They know exactly how people charge and where the car is parked and how long and so on. I'm pretty sure they made that decision based on plenty of data they have.
 
this is basically the same discussion we had here over and over about dual vs single charger. Fact is 40 or 48 Amp charging is plenty for pretty much everyone except very few people. I know I know many will reply with examples of where only 80 Amp will cut it and 40 won't. Just as much as one can make up scenarios where 80 Amp just won't cut it. People sleep at night and the amount of time we sleep is plenty to charge a 90 kWh battery. And that's the situation for almost all Model S owners.

True, but on th S we have the choice of getting a dual charger for the fringe use-cases. With the X, no such option exists yet. But it is also totally possible that Tesla will rectify this later after getting past the initial load of orders. Deal with the "easy needs" customers first and the circle back around for the more fringe cases.
 
Remember, Tesla has charging data from every single owner over the last years. They know exactly how people charge and where the car is parked and how long and so on. I'm pretty sure they made that decision based on plenty of data they have.
Tesla has a ton of data, but it really doesn't tell the whole story. How many people for example would have went with dual chargers If they were to configure their car knowing what they know now? It makes very little sense to offer 20kw charging in the beginning when 80A HPWC's were not very common, and now that they are much more common, they only offer 12kw for a much thirstier electron drinking SUV? Tesla has been walking a very dangerous line lately, and too many more of these idiotic decisions may very well cost them the company.
 
I agree with @ohmmna about the benefits of faster 80A charging at destinations, and that is in part why I had Dual Chargers installed in my S and also installed an 80A HPWC at my house.
@O-G, have you considered ordering a Model S90 instead of an X? You could get 80A charging, fold down seats, and save thousands!

I've driven the MS several times. Unfortunately, I've driven pickups and SUVs for the last 20 years. Last seven in a BMW X5. I just can't handle the sedan thing. Too low to the ground. To limited visibility. I expected the MX to be better than the MS in every way. (Recognizing some reduction in speed and range.) Had I known some of the things happening now, maybe I would have tried the MS but probably would have settled for another SUV.
 
How much would a cheap home 100amp chademo cost for those who really need fast charging at home?
Tesla already offers the UMC as good value compared to the competition (at cost or better) so they could do the same for a DC charger, or offer DC output for a powerwall?
 
Mark...I got this response from the charging installation program manager at Tesla...Looks like the X is capable of being charged at 72 Amps but only a 50amp external charger will be delivered with the car. You will need to purchase the 72Amp external charger should you want to charge more rapidly.....

Model X will include the Mobile Connector charging cable and adapter for a NEMA 14-50 outlet. The recommended home charging installation for Model X is a NEMA 14-50 receptacle, see attached PDF for more detail on this outlet.

The on-board charger of Model X will be capable of accepting up to 72 amps. If you are interested in the faster home charging, you can have an electrician install the Wall Connector, configured with a 100 or 80 amp circuit breaker.

But @FlasherZ and @MarkZ posted that they were told by reliable Tesla sources that the Model X onboard AC charger was only capable of a maximum of 48A. This is confusing. As usual...

I was told, directly and specifically, that 48A would be the charging current limit for Model X.
PS - I hope it's wrong and it's actually 72A, I'd love it.

LOL
I think what they are trying to say is that the ON BOARD charger can take up to 72A, but they only a NEMA 14-50 adapter is coming with the UMC with the car. So if you want to take advantage of the full 72A, you'll have to purcahse extra a HPWC. That's the way I translate their horrific communication.

I am a Signature reservation holder. I received the news from a reliable source at Tesla, and Mark Z then heard it after asking his delivery specialist. It was reconfirmed in an e-mail to me today.Yes - "MX is only capable of being charged at 48A at non-SC locations."

For overnight 48A is plenty. There are times on trips where maybe a stop at a mall or service center that doesn't have Super Chargers where 80A is still very useful. It sounds like not not maybe people opted for the twin chargers so they dropped it. 72A rumor didn't sound that bad but 48A with no option to upgrade is less desirable.

this is basically the same discussion we had here over and over about dual vs single charger. Fact is 40 or 48 Amp charging is plenty for pretty much everyone except very few people. I know I know many will reply with examples of where only 80 Amp will cut it and 40 won't. Just as much as one can make up scenarios where 80 Amp just won't cut it. People sleep at night and the amount of time we sleep is plenty to charge a 90 kWh battery. And that's the situation for almost all Model S owners.

Remember, Tesla has charging data from every single owner over the last years. They know exactly how people charge and where the car is parked and how long and so on. I'm pretty sure they made that decision based on plenty of data they have.

This is all much ado about nothing ... 99% of the Tesla owners do fine with 40A charging and Superchargers available for long range travel.
Why the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth for the 1% corner cases ... relax and enjoy a fantastic EV ... life is way too short to worry.
 
I don't think so. We now have two very reliable reports that the Model X single onboard AC charger is max 12kW.
So disappointing.

I agree that destination charging will be less helpful. I often only stay at
a hotel long enough to shower and recharge my own battery (sleep). I need to be back on the road in 6-7 hours.

Wouldn't the thing to hope for and request is a release of a second add-on charger?
 
This is all much ado about nothing ... 99% of the Tesla owners do fine with 40A charging and Superchargers available for long range travel.
Why the wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth for the 1% corner cases ... relax and enjoy a fantastic EV ... life is way too short to worry.

I think the customer base for the MX will differ somewhat from those who purchased the MS and significantly from Roadster owners. More women and drivers with families as passengers will purchase the MX than ever before.

I agree that worrying won't help but I suggest we lobby for needed tweaks to make the MX more useful.
 
I suspect they made the decision because they had decided to go with a a single charger and in the end couldn't source higher amperage chargers (supplier let them down). 48 amps is suspiciously close to 40 amps. It is possible you could use the 40 amp charger and tweak a few components here and there and make it a 48 amp charger. Just a wild assed guess...

FWIW, Tesla engineered the charger themselves. It's manufactured in house in Fremont, CA.
 
The times when >12kW charging is useful is more common than an edge case (and frankly I'm a little annoyed at the posts by some trying to tell me my concern is not valid.) It may not be a problem for YOU, which is great, but it is clearly for some, and the fact the Tesla removed an option that existed in the S is a step backwards. At least make it an option.

EV rate plans... I'm going to get hit with this.

Destination charging when there is more than one person wanting to use the only HPWC. This is going to be come more common. Wait until you're in an X, and the other guy is in an S with dual chargers. The guy in the S gets to wait longer because of the X. This has happened to me with S's without dual chargers. I even asked if I could step in for an hour because I could charge faster and I wasn't staying overnight and the other owner looked at me like I was crazy.

When the superchargers were upgraded from 90kW to 120kW (and again to 135kW), Elon positioned it as "helping the entire community". This is because even if your car can't take the faster charge rate, it gets other cars out of there faster which increases the overall number of cars that can charge per day.

<annoyed>
 
EV rate plans... I'm going to get hit with this.

Realistically, how many times would you need to? I drive an average of 120 miles every day. That's more than 90% of all people here. I can fit my daily charge into a 4 hour window. Let's say you are driving even more a day. You will need maybe one more hour every day to charge beyond the 4 hour window. So let's say every day you have to buy 10 kWh at a higher price. Let's say it's 15 ct more. 10 * 0.15 * 365 = $547 a year extra cost. Cost for HPWC plus extra wiring plus dual charger = ~$4000. More than 7 years to just break even. Cost is definitely not an argument.

When the superchargers were upgraded from 90kW to 120kW (and again to 135kW), Elon positioned it as "helping the entire community". This is because even if your car can't take the faster charge rate, it gets other cars out of there faster which increases the overall number of cars that can charge per day.
<annoyed>

Superchargers and home charging is apples and oranges. At a Supercharger, you want to keep the charge time as short as possible because the only reason you stop there is because you have to charge. The faster the better. There might also be another one waiting to charge.

At home your car is just parked all night. No one else waiting to get a charge. You have no rush to charge.