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Update: Model X has a single charger, but only 48A capable

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There's two difference arguments for faster charging. One is arriving home with low charge and needing to quickly recharge before going back out for the day. The other is you have plenty of time to charge overnight but you want charging to happen during your off-peak period. I believe JanoSicek's point was that if your need is only for the off-peak charging window, it may not be worth the cost of the faster charger. Literally spending dollars to save pennies.

Now if you have a 200 mile roundtrip commute and then want to go out on the town in the evening, even if that's only a few times a year, that is a different story.

There is at least one more reason for faster charging. As Teslas become more prevalent and destination chargers start to see queues develop you can charge more vehicles in a timely manner with 72 vs 48 charging capabilities
 
I admittedly view this stuff thru rosy glasses, but I am watching the theoretical area that would be occupied (sometime in 2016) by:
  • 48A single charger which TM is working on fitting into a smaller form factor, enabling a:
  • 96A Dual configuration for power-users, towing enthusiasts, TOU opportunists, drivers-over-mountains, etc. - compatible with a:
  • New Generation HPWC That Goes To 11! Hook up to a 125A circuit and charge your Dually Chargered X at:
  • 30kW rate of charge (assuming 240V)
Because I could totally see a smaller, lighter 48A charger figuring into the base Model III.

Slight amendment: After 100A, breaker sizes go to 125A, 150A, 200A, ...
smile.gif
Thus Amended Hath It Been.

Edited once more to state that I really don't believe Tesla made a decision on this Functionality Item based on focus-group-like data or surveys. Charging Time is one of the vanishingly few NEGATIVES of a BEV. They wouldn't go backwards on any of those without a Forward Step to come in the future.
 
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What's UP with the 4 hours of cheap electricity? Here in Switzerland I get 13 hours of lower tariff electricity daily, plus like 40 hours nonstop on the weekend.
For me this is absolutely not an issue. Similar situation in many european countries I assume. 11kW charger is all we need.

As addendum, I would say that if you have 200 mile roundtrip commute, then you have a totally different problem in your life than charging speed of your car.
Regain your sanity, move :)

Maybe we should all move to Switzerland. ;-)
 
I admittedly view this stuff thru rosy glasses, but I am watching the theoretical area that would be occupied (sometime in 2016) by:
  • 48A single charger which TM is working on fitting into a smaller form factor, enabling a:
  • 96A Dual configuration for power-users, towing enthusiasts, TOU opportunists, drivers-over-mountains, etc. - compatible with a:
  • New Generation HPWC That Goes To 11! Hook up to a 120A circuit and charge your Dually Chargered X at:
  • 23kW rate of charge
Because I could totally see a smaller, lighter 48A charger figuring into the base Model III.

Slight amendment: After 100A, breaker sizes go to 125A, 150A, 200A, ... :)

- - - Updated - - -

The logical reason is there is a problem of supply or unforeseen design issues with the 72A charger that have finally come to a head and thus initial Model X ships in a compromised form. I fully expect a higher powered charger to make it into slightly later production.

There are times when a logistical / tactical decision becomes a permanent decision once the data is studied more. Indications are this is a "for the foreseeable future" move. That's not to say that a backlash won't cause them to reconsider, but the wording being used by Tesla indicates nothing about this being a temporary issue.
 
Which is why the 72amp, (really the 80 amp available in the MS), should be an option. It is a huge issue to me. I can see once or twice a week that it will potentially be a problem. Many if not all weekends will be a problem. I'm thinking I will need a second vehicle to drive for work on Friday so that when I come home from work, the MX can handle the trip for the weekend.

Wouldn't the cost of a second vehicle, gas and insurance far outpace the 1-3 hours once a week of electricity you can't fit into that 4 hour window? How much higher is the 10PM-2AM rate for example before the cheap rate kicks in (don't know your exact rate schedule)?
 
There's two difference arguments for faster charging. One is arriving home with low charge and needing to quickly recharge before going back out for the day. The other is you have plenty of time to charge overnight but you want charging to happen during your off-peak period. I believe JanoSicek's point was that if your need is only for the off-peak charging window, it may not be worth the cost of the faster charger. Literally spending dollars to save pennies.

Now if you have a 200 mile roundtrip commute and then want to go out on the town in the evening, even if that's only a few times a year, that is a different story.

There is a third reason. When you have a stretch beyond Superchargers (those areas do exist...), and need a little more charge, the extra charging speed can be very important. For example, if you need another 50 rated miles to finish the leg, and there is an 80 Amp Destination Charger or a HAL2 on the way, it's a difference between one hour and two hours of L2 charging. One hour for a quick lunch or a walk is acceptable, two hours starts getting annoying.

If you are in Colorado and do the Denver to SW Colorado drive, the 70 Amp HAL2's in Salida and Pagosa Springs make this a reality. The Sun Country Highway HAL2's in Canada and Washington State are good examples, not to mention all those nice 80 Amp Destination chargers.
 
It's not about the money at this point, it's about time. I would not be able to do the work drive on Friday, then turn around and drive to my weekend place. I would have to charge Friday night, then drive Saturday thus losing one evening of my weekend away.
 
There are times when a logistical / tactical decision becomes a permanent decision once the data is studied more. Indications are this is a "for the foreseeable future" move. That's not to say that a backlash won't cause them to reconsider, but the wording being used by Tesla indicates nothing about this being a temporary issue.

The wording being used would also be permanent-sounding to avoid the Osborne effect on current sales, even if the plan was to introduce something better as soon as possible.
 
It's not about the money at this point, it's about time. I would not be able to do the work drive on Friday, then turn around and drive to my weekend place. I would have to charge Friday night, then drive Saturday thus losing one evening of my weekend away.

I see. You must have a long commute. This definitely is a step back. Hope an upgrade is offered in the future.
 
I have experienced similar Friday woes even with my dual-charger Model S if I have had a busier day. I need pretty much full charge to get to where I go. I have one nearby Type 2 I have used to top up quickly, though not even that is always quick enough and I've had to take the ICE. Many times the Type 2 has helped though and meant the difference between a BEV and an ICE weekend.

Cut the Type 2 speed in half and it would not help me.
 
There is a third reason. When you have a stretch beyond Superchargers (those areas do exist...), and need a little more charge, the extra charging speed can be very important. For example, if you need another 50 rated miles to finish the leg, and there is an 80 Amp Destination Charger or a HAL2 on the way, it's a difference between one hour and two hours of L2 charging. One hour for a quick lunch or a walk is acceptable, two hours starts getting annoying.

If you are in Colorado and do the Denver to SW Colorado drive, the 70 Amp HAL2's in Salida and Pagosa Springs make this a reality. The Sun Country Highway HAL2's in Canada and Washington State are good examples, not to mention all those nice 80 Amp Destination chargers.
Agreed and I get it having lived and worked 15 years in Southern CA and another 25 years in almost every state in the lower 48. It gets "iffy" accessing reputable gas stations between some major cities in the middle of the country let alone finding a SC or destination charger.

For obvious reasons the "48A is good enough" sentiment here is largely due to the disproportionate number of Tesla owners who live and work so close to SC capability.

If Tesla cares to add customers in the middle of the USA, new vehicles should not come with more charging limitations. Maybe Elon needs to select consumer advice outside of California.
 
There is a third reason. When you have a stretch beyond Superchargers (those areas do exist...), and need a little more charge, the extra charging speed can be very important. For example, if you need another 50 rated miles to finish the leg, and there is an 80 Amp Destination Charger or a HAL2 on the way, it's a difference between one hour and two hours of L2 charging. One hour for a quick lunch or a walk is acceptable, two hours starts getting annoying.

Hopefully I'll be excused for repeating this example, but this is exactly something that's encountered coming from Bend, Oregon to the Mt. Shasta Supercharger in winter. I encountered rain and wind, and there was no way to make the haul (in an 85). I was very thankful to be able to stop at the OIT and get a free 80A charge for a half hour in order to continue along to Mt. Shasta. When it's pouring rain, does anyone want to go for a stroll or wait longer than necessary?

I understand they still have plenty of people who won't ever use it, and don't care about the insurance of the extra capacity. For me, it's contributing to that "death by a million cuts" thing.
 
Agreed and I get it having lived and worked 15 years in Southern CA and another 25 years in almost every state in the lower 48. It gets "iffy" accessing reputable gas stations between some major cities in the middle of the country let alone finding a SC or destination charger.

For obvious reasons the "48A is good enough" sentiment here is largely due to the disproportionate number of Tesla owners who live and work so close to SC capability.

If Tesla cares to add customers in the middle of the USA, new vehicles should not come with more charging limitations. Maybe Elon needs to select consumer advice outside of California.

Completely agree, Beryl. While I fall into the category of 'those with easy SC access', I don't want to see the charging options take a step backwards. (Note: My 2011 Roadster is capable of charging at 70amps.)

My X will occasionally be towing - and some of the places that I'll go, I'll be relying on 80amp destination chargers and other sources. Unfortunately, with this new decision, finding an 80amp place to charge really will be moot.

So far I've heard three reasons from Tesla, shared by others here on the forum: Engineering is clarifying (whatever that means), because of a survey of Model S owners (not buying that), and manufacturing made the call. Two of those three reasons were in the same letter. Consequently, I don't believe any of those reasons.

I'd like the truth. If it's a cost issue, let me decide what I'm willing to pay, give me my options. If it's a supplier issue, tell me if I can swap it out in the future at a SC. If it's something else, be straight with me.

Don't decide what I need or don't need without consulting me, especially after I already lost the option of dual chargers.
 
Hopefully Tesla's looking at that type of case.

I live in the midwest, I have no "local" superchargers. My in-laws' home is 140 miles from me, and I have the occasional business trip (1-2 per qtr). A frequent trip for me would be to come home from the airport, then prepare to leave for the in-laws'. This is why I installed the 80A charging in Model S. Prior to the airport chargers, round trip to the STL airport was 120 miles rated plus vampire draw. I would have to come home, plug in and charge at 80A while loading the car, and as soon as we hit 180 again, zoom - off we go.

Since, though, the airport chargers have mitigated this in that I generally make it home with 200ish miles when coming back from the airport. In addition, the Effingham, IL supercharger allows me to leave with only 100 miles or so, if I had to. So my use case for rapid charging has largely gone away.

We have no TOU tariffs and the power company says it really doesn't matter if I charge day or night from their perspective.

I'm sure there are a good number of cases where higher-rate charging would be absolutely required. Put me in the "would like it if it is possible" bucket, I would pay up to a couple thousand to have the "dual charger" like capability.

I guess in the end Tesla has to look at its data and decide whether those cases represent a sufficient number. Maybe they'll take dollars saved and push it to supercharger build-out, hoping that the 2016 map becomes more of a reality.
 
The decision to go with a single 48A charger has left me scratching my head. I don't buy the argument about cost, because Tesla doesn't mind selling ~$150,000 fully loaded vehicles and a second charger would be around 1% cost increase. I know they can do better because the S comes with dual chargers and the founder's Model-X have 72A. The only thing I can think of is the design engineers are tired and after building this incredibly complex vehicle, they are now trying hard to simplify it as much as possible (e.g. by removing options like a dual charger and 3rd row seats). But not allowing for a 2nd after-purchase charger still baffles me.
 
The decision to go with a single 48A charger has left me scratching my head. I don't buy the argument about cost, because Tesla doesn't mind selling ~$150,000 fully loaded vehicles and a second charger would be around 1% cost increase. I know they can do better because the S comes with dual chargers and the founder's Model-X have 72A. The only thing I can think of is the design engineers are tired and after building this incredibly complex vehicle, they are now trying hard to simplify it as much as possible (e.g. by removing options like a dual charger and 3rd row seats). But not allowing for a 2nd after-purchase charger still baffles me.

IMO the logical answer is: They designed the car for one high-powered single charger to simplify things without much performance impact, e.g. 72A (or even better?). Maybe they don't have space or wiring for two because they never intended to have two. Maybe this same one high-powered single charger is destined for Model S too, hence removal of the dual option (other than service install because Model S has space for it).

But supplier or design issues have now forced them to temporarily ship a up-tuned Model S single charger instead... It seems non-folding seats all over again.