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[UPDATED] 2 die in Tesla crash - NHTSA reports driver seat occupied
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I get your point, but you are able to drive the car in that situation, for hundreds of miles without hitting something. Your brain is working and looking and doing driving tasks, just more in the background that optimal. It still has a good chance of noticing something unusual and popping out of that state and providing a functional backup to the L2 ADAS system.
These things are not physically possible if your eyes are not looking out the windshield. The generic goal should be "paying as much attention as you would if you were driving without the ADAS system".
EVNow
Well-Known Member
In the ER this was answered by one of the execs - not Musk. Also it sounded like a pre-written statement that was read out.
rxlawdude
Active Member
I swear I smell a short seller hear. The gears crunching indicate an ICE addiction, which just makes the dystopian posts so sad.
alstoralset
Man from another place
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Tesla claims someone was in the driver’s seat in deadly Texas crash
The company comments on the under-investigation crash.
www.theverge.com
I currently own 2 Teslas, have owned 2 others in the past, and own quite a bit of Tesla stock I bought in 2016. I currently race a Model 3 and dominate with it, and I believe EV's are the future. Stop it with your conspiracy theories (saying I am a mobileye employee in another thread?). If the best defense you have to something you don't like hearing is that the poster is biased against Tesla, then your defense is weak. I am one of the ones that both wants Tesla to succeed, but also wants them to do better, and finds their history around automated driving appalling (which is completely independent of the EV drivetrain).
I still say we don't know the whole story here, and Tesla isn't helping with the weird mix of "we have data for this, but not that" when the data set that answers if AP was engaged would also answer all the other seatbelt and driver in seat weight questions as well.
Seriously- tell me how Elon knows for sure that AP was not engaged like he tweeted on April 19th but wasn't equally sure someone was in the seat based on the same data?
am guessing that it means the driver hit his head or a body part upon impact hard enough to show that the wheel was deformed. dunno about airbag tho
am guessing that it means the driver hit his head or a body part upon impact hard enough to show that the wheel was deformed, bent or slightly warped
What was actually said was that no belts were fastened post-crash. They don't know if they were fastened at the time of the crash yet.
That does tell us that it is highly unlikely that they were trying to bypass the safeties. As do other facts like the speed.
I think this is a misunderstanding of the engineering term "Brake Horsepower". The term has little to do with brakes in an automobile, nor with "engine-braking"
Just to get the latter out of the way first:
Engine Braking is the well-known characteristic of net energy dissipation or loss, from having the driveline acting against the resistance of the Compression Stroke. This will be a net power (= Energy expenditure rate over Time) loss when you are coasting with nearly-closed throttle. This is because the amount of air-fuel combusted on the subsequent Power Stroke is low, yielding less expansion energy to drive the piston down compared to the amount of energy it took to compress the mixture on the Compression Stroke. Engine Braking is indeed a tool of truckers and race-car drivers, and sometimes a useful aid to automobile drivers especially in long downhill stretches where there could be a concern of overheating the friction brakes. Employing some degree of engine braking assists the friction brakes or even replaces their action in some cases, saving them from excess wear, overheating and possible failure. However, the idea that an automobile driver should down-shift aggressively to employ engine braking in routine situations is flawed. Race-car teams may completely overhaul or replace the (usually non-stock) transmission after every race or so, and similarly, commercial trucks have frequent maintenance and much heavier-duty gearboxes. In normal, even aggressive car driving, you'd best not over-use the "pro" methods of downshifting and heavy engine braking. The friction brakes are very capable in a properly engineered car, and it's a lot cheaper to replace brake pads and rotors than clutches, transmissions and other driveline components.
Now, Brake Horsepower (BHP) is a term within the rather complicated lexicon of Horsepower ratings and measurement methods - a topic that goes back to James Watt and his steam engines of the 18th century. Essentially, it means the horsepower rating available at the rotating output shaft of the engine (ICE or Steam or Electric Motor). The name is taken from a sensible method of measuring it - apply a measurable brake mechanism directly on the shaft to assess the power delivered there.
BHP is a popular measure partly because it makes good advertising - it's higher than the horsepower available at the wheels (measured say on a dyno) because it does not subtract the inevitable losses due to transmission and driveline friction effects. Don't get me wrong, BHP is a perfectly necessary and legitimate concept for the engineers designing the car, but it isn't as relevant to the end-user who cannot take advantage of it directly.
So Brake Horsepower has no direct connection to the car's braking mechanisms, whether conventional friction disc or drum type, ICE engine braking, EV regenerative motor back-EMF, parachute of a drag racer, or whatever. There is, of course, a set of braking power specifications, that in any safe car should easily exceed the motive-horsepower ratings, but users rarely see such specifications advertised - usually the braking spec is given as braking distance from a starting speed, with a specified payload in the car etc.
just us a picture of them with your screen name in the photo and I’ll believe you.
Apologies- other posters said "Per Elon on the Q1 call, there were no fastened seat belts." - See, just the lamestream media lying to me, I should sue.
That being corrected, not sure I trust non-Elon people in Tesla's communications department to be more precise when misunderstanding suits them. They are pretty slippery in their language all over Tesla (not saying they aren't smart).
I've been a member here since 2016. Check my post history. Less than a year ago I was taking photos of suspension components and posting them here. I posted instructions on a Model X frunk removal years ago. You go do the work to prove I don't own 2 Teslas given my history if you're so sure.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
I'll be interested in hearing the results if they did an autopsy and if they release the results at some time in the future.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
You mean unlike the elected political constable ? Or unlike corporate executives in other companies ?
The fact is - if they are deliberately hiding the truth in this call - it will come back to bite them. They could ofcourse be making mistakes - but my reading is that this is the shared opinion of Tesla / NTSB. If this is not the general opinion of all parties involved - we'll soon hear from others in some way. There is zero reason why Tesla would deliberately hide the truth at this point.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
However this crash ends up, the next crash will have the headline "Another Autopilot crash for beleaguered Tesla cars". This crash has already been burned into the collective consciousness as caused by nobody being in the driver's seat and the car (Tesla, TESLA CAR!) crashing itself. That's why Elon was trying to alter the narrative quickly in his tweet about AP not engaged.
Anyway as I pointed out in this thread, there will be another crash soon if this kind of thing keeps up:
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/5478842/
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