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[UPDATED] 2 die in Tesla crash - NHTSA reports driver seat occupied

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Strange. a month into ownership (April 2018), a passenger used the "wrong" way to open the door. no issues, but the car chimed at me with a dialog on the screen with the warning. After that, I tested my side and found the windows came down. Never understood the purpose of the warning if the glass came immediately down upon unlatching. Countless other passengers have since made the same mistake with no ill consequence.

Maybe Tesla overlooked the window drop on the Y and fixed it last year?

Yeah I ended up going to my car after reading this thread to compare the two methods. If the window is slower to drop with the mechanical latch, it's pretty hard to tell.
Because the drop in the second method requires you to move the door (given it works via the door sensor) it is guaranteed to be slower than the button, given the button gives an instantaneous signal before you even open the door (either simultaneously with latch actuation or it can even be before). That said, if you don't open the door in a way where you pull the latch while pushing out in a immediate continuous movement (most people probably pull the latch, pause a split second, before pushing out) it probably is unlikely to do any damage.
 
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Because the drop in the second method requires you to move the door (given it works via the door sensor) it is guaranteed to be slower than the button, given the button gives an instantaneous signal before you even open the door (either simultaneously with latch actuation or it can even be before). That said, if you don't open the door in a way where you pull the latch while pushing out in a immediate continuous movement (most people probably pull the latch, pause a split second, before pushing out) it probably is unlikely to do any damage.

Agree. in practice though, the reaction time of the car to drop the window is very quick. Opening both ways back to back, I had a hard time perceiving slowness. I would estimate any delay to be around 100-200ms.

Also agree that delay could be a problem if the person is already pushing out on the door before they unlatch.

But in my own (passengers') experience, pushing first isn't a thing. Particularly when the person is trying to hunt for how to open the door. But since the chance of damaging the brightwork is not zero, Tesla decided to put a warning in the UI. Also makes a lot of sense if the very early firmware didn't even attempt to roll the window down after manual unlatch.
 
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There’s a chance that the doors could be damaged during the accident and couldn’t be opened anyway
interstesting this was mentioned during this at times passionate debate on opening a door yourself after an accident
having asked many paramedics at my previous position in a major metro area i found majority of moderate or worse accidents doors could either not easily be opened by occupant(s) or even bystanders or flat out could not at all without power tools .. also seatbelts rarely do not function after even a severe accident (unbuckle when button pressed) paramedics reach in and press button if accessible ( cut belt if not convenient to access )
modern vehicles are designed to deform during impact to dissipate energy as most pll know .. and this is not conducive to doors / hoods etc functioning
no my sample size is not as large as I would like but likely larger than most ppl encounter
 
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But in my own (passengers') experience, pushing first isn't a thing. Particularly when the person is trying to hunt for how to open the door. But since the chance of damaging the brightwork is not zero, Tesla decided to put a warning in the UI.
The other aspect here is they are training repeat users to not use that latch every time. If it damages the trim or window 1:1000 times, it will probably never happen with a random passenger fumbling, but if you use it every time, one day you will be in a rush, leaning on the door, moving quick, and it will happen. If they didn't have the message, I bet 20% of new buyers would find the mechanical latch, never notice the button, and just use that forever.
 
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interstesting this was mentioned during this at times passionate debate on opening a door yourself after an accident
having asked many paramedics at my previous position in a major metro area i found majority of moderate or worse accidents doors could either not easily be opened by occupant(s) or even bystanders or flat out could not at all without power tools .. also seatbelts rarely do not function after even a severe accident (unbuckle when button pressed) paramedics reach in and press button if accessible ( cut belt if not convenient to access )
modern vehicles are designed to deform during impact to dissipate energy as most pll know .. and this is not conducive to doors / hoods etc functioning
no my sample size is not as large as I would like but likely larger than most ppl encounter
I don't think the door frame is designed to deform, it's part of the structure that prevents your feet from getting crushed. Though I would also guess that most collisions severe enough to cause a battery fire would also be severe enough to make it impossible to open the door.
There's also the case of driving into a body of water though I'm guessing the electric releases would still work for a time...
 
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It's highly relevant because it shows NHTSA won't be doing anything about this and it's up to the user to educate themselves on how to open the doors of their vehicles in an emergency (including exiting in other doors if necessary).
Note as discussed up thread, there are door designs where you can't even open the rear doors without opening the front, not to mention vehicle types like coupes. There are also child locks (as mentioned in article) that make it impossible to open the rear doors. I don't see NHTSA stepping into this, as it's too limiting on vehicle types.

If you say so. There is a lot said publicly about Teslas bursting into flames. That gets attention, even if it is overblown. Add in the doors trapping people inside, regardless of there being a secret escape release, it will hurt sales, potentially of all BEVs, since they do tend to get lumped together as being "not ICE".

Claiming the same problem exists with some ICE models will have zero impact on the safety of BEVs or the perception.
 
They will automatically apply an extra fee if they detect that the wrong door handle was used.

The "wrong" handle? So was it marked with bright yellow and black stripes and a large warning sign to not use it? When people are getting out of a cab, they reach for whatever seems like a handle. This is a case of "seller beware". There's no way they will be able to bill customers for this sort of damage.
 
Yes, I've had it happen twice when I first got the car. The first time it happened the door made an odd sound, like rubber popping. I assumed this noise was the door opening before the window was rolled down, so it had to force itself out of the rubber seals. The second time it happened, the passenger opened the door before I could say anything, and when I said "Oh s$$t!" the guy quickly closed the door. I heard a rubber rubbing noise, and small "pop" sound, which I assumed was the glass popping back into the seal.

Since then I always educate new passengers, so I haven't tested it again. I read that the window does come down, but some say that the window drop is delayed with the manual release vs the button. I guess I can test myself and see how it works.

This is one of the reasons why Teslas will never become the mainstream, in every driveway car in the US. They have far, far too many quirks and issues. Maybe the $25,000 car will get rid of this stuff and just be a car with an electric motor. But, if Musk is still running the show, I expect not.
 
This is one of the reasons why Teslas will never become the mainstream, in every driveway car in the US. They have far, far too many quirks and issues. Maybe the $25,000 car will get rid of this stuff and just be a car with an electric motor. But, if Musk is still running the show, I expect not.

"I want to have products that appeal to everybody...There’s no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance.”
—Then-Microsoft CEO Steve Balmer, April 29, 2007
 
This is one of the reasons why Teslas will never become the mainstream, in every driveway car in the US. They have far, far too many quirks and issues. Maybe the $25,000 car will get rid of this stuff and just be a car with an electric motor. But, if Musk is still running the show, I expect not.
Southern California is Tesla's biggest market, and where I live you can't throw a stone without hitting a Tesla. :)
 
The Model 3 is the 8th best selling car in the world. The door handles don't seem to be holding it back:


Tesla recently lost a law suit regarding a driver's death. There are a number of lawsuits regarding the battery fires. When there are claims that people could not escape a vehicle due to the doors not opening, do you really think no one is going to notice?

 
Tesla recently lost a law suit regarding a driver's death. There are a number of lawsuits regarding the battery fires. When there are claims that people could not escape a vehicle due to the doors not opening, do you really think no one is going to notice?


Are you referring to the case where they simply have to pay 1% of the damages because a technician at a different service center removed the speed limiter after the request of the young driver?

That’s not much of a “loss”.
 
Are you referring to the case where they simply have to pay 1% of the damages because a technician at a different service center removed the speed limiter after the request of the young driver?

That’s not much of a “loss”.

You miss the point. They lost the case. That's called "precedent".
 
You miss the point. They lost the case. That's called "precedent".
And the precedent is:
if someone drives a car too fast and crashes and dies they are 90+% at fault
But if their dad provided them the car, he is 9+% at fault
And if a Tesla service tech removed a speed limiter the company is 1% at fault.
The chain of "if not for" and nothing to with battery safety.
 
And the precedent is:
if someone drives a car too fast and crashes and dies they are 90+% at fault
But if their dad provided them the car, he is 9+% at fault
And if a Tesla service tech removed a speed limiter the company is 1% at fault.
The chain of "if not for" and nothing to with battery safety.
yeah, it's a case that has nothing to do with anything relevant to this case, so really sets a precedent for nothing related to this.
 
yeah, it's a case that has nothing to do with anything relevant to this case, so really sets a precedent for nothing related to this.

The precedent is that Tesla has been, and will be, held responsible for other people's operation of their cars, when the cars are set to do dangerous things. The details will be up to the juries to hash out.
 
The precedent is that Tesla has been, and will be, held responsible for other people's operation of their cars, when the cars are set to do dangerous things. The details will be up to the juries to hash out.
That's not how legal precedents work at all, they only apply to the given circumstances of a specific case. In that case it was a service tech of a service center disabling a safety feature (speed limiter) without authorization by the actual owner. Tesla was only held liable because they are the employer of the service tech due to Tesla's direct ownership of service centers, nothing to do with liability as the vehicle manufacturer. If this happened with other companies it would be the dealership liable, nothing to do with the manufacturer.

Your logic is so broad it's like saying Tesla is liable for all future lawsuits with completely different circumstances, simply because they lost one. There is no precedent set for any battery fire lawsuits nor for any claims of difficulty opening doors, as you were originally trying to claim.
 
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