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Updated autopilot sucks!

flyhigh123

Member
Aug 27, 2015
385
289
Los Angeles
Just had a software update and let me say, this new auto pilot sucks!!!!!

The hands on wheel warning pops up every 20 seconds when in cruise control.

It’s annoying as I need to literally put pressure against the wheel with my hand so it really defeats autopilot. To keep it from coming on every 20 seconds.

Also these warnings are creating an increased distraction from watching the road as I need to take my eyes off the road.

I can no longer recommend autopilot to any referrals.

Let’s just call it driver assist now since this is no longer remotely close to autopilot.

I understand tesla is trying to cover their butt with these recent fatalities but I don’t agree with this new update.
 

flyhigh123

Member
Aug 27, 2015
385
289
Los Angeles
In cruise control without lane assist or only when lane assist is active?
In cruise control with lane assist.

Btw I have ap1.

Before the hands on steering would pop up randomly sometimes 5 minutes sometimes longer.

No regardless of road condition, it’s every 20 seconds.

How is that not distracting.

I can have my hands on the steering wheel and the warning still comes on as it requires pressure against the driving direction on the wheel.
 

modamoda

Member
May 24, 2016
129
123
Greater Seattle Area
Huh, glad to know I was not the only one who thinks this is somewhat inferior than ver 12.

I used to put my hand on the handle, but it was not enough to be detected as "legitimate user interaction". so I used forced to TILT handle every minute EVEN MY HANDS ARE STILL GRABBING HANDLE. This ruins my handling experience and distracts me, also harms passengers comfort riding experience.

And even worse for the safety - this version of AP forces me to KEEP MY SIGHT OFF FROM ROAD due to this reason.
 

slevit1md

Member
Jun 22, 2015
310
205
Oregon
Sad, but can't say I'm surprised. Although Autopilot's actual ability to remain within the lines improves, everything else seems to get downgraded. When AP first came out, it only required hands-on when it was unsure what to do (which was pretty frequent at the beginning). Shortly after, they made it an actual nag. Then, they added the restriction of only going 5mph over the speed limit on anything other than a divided highway. At one point they even made it go the actual speed limit, but fortunately it was raised back to 5 mph over.
So now, instead of something which actually resembles autopilot, we've got adaptive cruise control with lane-keeping assist, which plenty of other vehicles offer. While other manufacturers increase their capabilities, Tesla seems to be downgrading theirs.
Unfortunate that Elon has decided to side with what lawyers want, over what he intended the car to be (and what we bough the car expecting). Autopilot is probably the biggest reason that I am getting a second Tesla. However, the way things are going, it looks like other vehicles will be matching Tesla's "autopilot" capabilities in the not-too-distant future. Most other cars at this price are significantly more luxurious inside and don't have the nearly guaranteed quality control issues off the line. Sure would hate to see them remove one of the biggest reasons to buy the car.
 
Last edited:

W84M3

Member
Apr 12, 2016
345
1,485
Belgium
Well.. did you guys try the wiggle or holding the steering wheel? I've seen a video from the new AP update and seems better to me?

edit: link to video & similar experiences in that thread...
 
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thegruf

Active Member
Mar 24, 2015
2,290
1,979
indeterminate
I get the disappointment, though to be fair Tesla have always said your hands must be on the wheel.
I dont get the claim that it distracts you from the road.

This, unfortunately though is inevitable as the system has to be as safe as possible for the lowest common deominator aka the dumbest user out there. And with some of the pretty dumb stuff reported on here alone plus the highly publicised accidents, it is not surprising everyone else has to take a hit in usability.

Hopefully Tesla can continue to find new ways to achieve an acceptable balance with future revisions.
I have always thought that with Tesla's mapping that nags could be geo-sensitive to road type/on-off ramp/interchanges etc. How possilbe this is in AP1 and/or AP2 cars who knows.

(even with GM Cruise eye tracking camera I see that ppl are already finding ways to trick it, so it is not just a Tesla thing but an L2 driver remains in control thing)
 

MXWing

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2016
7,477
19,940
USA
Chill.

I didn't even have cruise control of any kind working when I took delivery. Less functional than my 1987 Nissan Maxima (RIP wish stupid Chevy Malibu didn't run that red).

I had 40 MPH freeway autosteer. Really? I could bike faster than that so what's the point?

The whole idea of being able to do updates is they can keep doing updates.

One update, they must have accidentally loaded FalconX firmware for lane changes.

Lane changes were conducted with maximum G and was highly unpleasant.

Was shortly fixed.

Lots of people have noticed the nagging, so it too will come to pass.

I also believe this update was rushed because Elon got too ambitious during the shareholder meeting. Usually the odd numbered software builds are tested longer before they go general release.

Those experienced with AP evolution can tell significant steps forward are being taken despite an annoying step taken back.

Neural net is figuring out how to better navigate roads through logic than relying on stored gps data.
 
Last edited:
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modamoda

Member
May 24, 2016
129
123
Greater Seattle Area
I get the disappointment, though to be fair Tesla have always said your hands must be on the wheel.
I dont get the claim that it distracts you from the road.

It was existing problem that system is not able to detect your hand on the steer, and frequent warning in 19 update made it worse.

1. Tesla have always said your hands must be on the wheel
2. I always put my hand on the wheel (with little force)
3. Tesla does not always detect my hands on the wheel
4. I got unnecessary warning
5. This warning made me move my sight off from the road
6. I was needed to put some force to the wheel
7. Car shakes (of course)

for 5, AP makes driver less focus on the road
for 7, AP makes passengers (and driver) less comfortable

I think this is something should be addressed.
 

Siggy101

Member
Jun 29, 2017
176
387
Geneva, Switzerland
I have found a behaviour that might interest you.
If I have EAP engaged (AP2.0 running 2018.21.9), I do not get the frequent nags that you guys seem to be experiencing in this version. I live in Switzerland so perhaps it's a US thing...
The interesting thing is this: If I leave the wheel and pedals alone, the car will drive on EAP for about 30 to 60 seconds before the nag comes up. If, however, I touch the exhillerator pedal, the nag will come up instantly. This is 100% repeatable and I had it in the previous version too.

Have you got your foot on the pedal, even lightly? If so, try making a conscious effort to move it clear of the pedal and see if you get less nags.

I get the feeling that you guys in the US now have a different nag algorithm to cars outside the US so you might not get the same behaviour as me but I am interested to see if this is repeatable for you guys.

Can anyone else outside the US replicate my findings? Engage EAP then press the exhillerator pedal and see if you get the nag instantly.
 

Peteski

Active Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,539
2,297
UK, Milton Keynes
I have found a behaviour that might interest you.
If I have EAP engaged (AP2.0 running 2018.21.9), I do not get the frequent nags that you guys seem to be experiencing in this version. I live in Switzerland so perhaps it's a US thing...
The interesting thing is this: If I leave the wheel and pedals alone, the car will drive on EAP for about 30 to 60 seconds before the nag comes up. If, however, I touch the exhillerator pedal, the nag will come up instantly. This is 100% repeatable and I had it in the previous version too.

Have you got your foot on the pedal, even lightly? If so, try making a conscious effort to move it clear of the pedal and see if you get less nags.

I get the feeling that you guys in the US now have a different nag algorithm to cars outside the US so you might not get the same behaviour as me but I am interested to see if this is repeatable for you guys.

Can anyone else outside the US replicate my findings? Engage EAP then press the exhillerator pedal and see if you get the nag instantly.

My UK car is like that too (AP2 2018.18). Nags maybe every minute or so, but instant nag if I use the accelerator pedal (e.g. to pass something in the inside lane a little quicker before settling back into a cruise. Also get an instant nag if using auto-lane change.

I've learnt to put just enough pressure on the wheel to stop most nags coming up anyway. I maybe get the odd one every 5 mins or so.
 

Saghost

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2013
8,224
7,020
Delaware
The environment you're driving in has historically made a big difference in prompt timing. If the car can see construction barrels, it'll give the sort of short cycle repeated prompts you're describing with any firmware version from the past year.

So before getting excited, start from the beginning: what hardware do you have? What firmware version do you have? Where were you driving? What was the traffic and weather like? Was there construction involved? Are there overhead signs or bridge pieces or other big stationary radar returns?
 
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Siggy101

Member
Jun 29, 2017
176
387
Geneva, Switzerland
AP2.0, 100% clear motorway driving, FW 2018.21.9 (which is the topic of conversation here, no?).
This is nothing to do with additional road hazards but standard behaviour on the simplest of roads that I'm referring to.
 
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Reactions: davidc18

Peteski

Active Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,539
2,297
UK, Milton Keynes
Sad, but can't say I'm surprised. Although Autopilot's actual ability to remain within the lines improves, everything else seems to get downgraded. When AP first came out, it only required hands-on when it was unsure what to do (which was pretty frequent at the beginning). Shortly after, they made it an actual nag. Then, they added the restriction of only going 5mph over the speed limit on anything other than a divided highway. At one point they even made it go the actual speed limit, but fortunately it was raised back to 5 mph over.
So now, instead of something which actually resembles autopilot, we've got adaptive cruise control with lane-keeping assist, which plenty of other vehicles offer. While other manufacturers increase their capabilities, Tesla seems to be downgrading theirs.
Unfortunate that Elon has decided to side with what lawyers want, over what he intended the car to be (and what we bough the car expecting). Autopilot is probably the biggest reason that I am getting a second Tesla. However, the way things are going, it looks like other vehicles will be matching Tesla's "autopilot" capabilities in the not-too-distant future. Most other cars at this price are significantly more luxurious inside and don't have the nearly guaranteed quality control issues off the line. Sure would hate to see them remove one of the biggest reasons to buy the car.

I think it's quite sensible that AS doesn't work much above the speed limit. In the UK it does alllow use at up to 90 mph on motorways and dual carriageways (70 mph legal limit). On slower roads it restricts AS to the actual speed limit, although if you use the offset speed limit function it controls to the limit + offset. So you can cheat a little! AS is pretty unreliable on single carriageways at the speed limit anyway if the road has any significant bends, so I'm glad it doesn't allow too much abuse!
 
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Reactions: T34ME

Peteski

Active Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,539
2,297
UK, Milton Keynes
It was existing problem that system is not able to detect your hand on the steer, and frequent warning in 19 update made it worse.

1. Tesla have always said your hands must be on the wheel
2. I always put my hand on the wheel (with little force)
3. Tesla does not always detect my hands on the wheel
4. I got unnecessary warning
5. This warning made me move my sight off from the road
6. I was needed to put some force to the wheel
7. Car shakes (of course)

for 5, AP makes driver less focus on the road
for 7, AP makes passengers (and driver) less comfortable

I think this is something should be addressed.

It sounds like you may have a fault. I never have to put enough force on the wheel to actually shake the car as you describe. All I need to do to cancel a nag is slightly resist the AS control in either direction. If I do apply enough force to actually steer the car off course then AS switches off as you would expect. You are either doing something wrong here or your car has a fault with the steering torque sensor.
 

hacer

Active Member
Apr 13, 2016
1,141
5,029
Clarksville, MD
It was existing problem that system is not able to detect your hand on the steer, and frequent warning in 19 update made it worse.

1. Tesla have always said your hands must be on the wheel
2. I always put my hand on the wheel (with little force)
3. Tesla does not always detect my hands on the wheel
4. I got unnecessary warning
5. This warning made me move my sight off from the road
6. I was needed to put some force to the wheel
7. Car shakes (of course)

for 5, AP makes driver less focus on the road
for 7, AP makes passengers (and driver) less comfortable

I think this is something should be addressed.
(5) If you know you got the warning already, why take your eyes off the road? You saw it in your peripheral vision and you know what to do. You can jiggle the wheel without moving your eyes.
(7) If the car shakes due to your wheel torque, either your car needs service or you're doing it way wrong. When in auto-steer, there is a small amount of "play" in the steering wheel where you can move it without the front wheels moving at all. If you move the steering wheel within this zone of play it will satisfy the warning without any effect on the car's travel on the road.

It still totally sucks to get warnings every 20 seconds.
 
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Jdcorbitt3

Member
Feb 10, 2016
222
201
Ocala, FL
I have found a behaviour that might interest you.
If I have EAP engaged (AP2.0 running 2018.21.9), I do not get the frequent nags that you guys seem to be experiencing in this version. I live in Switzerland so perhaps it's a US thing...
The interesting thing is this: If I leave the wheel and pedals alone, the car will drive on EAP for about 30 to 60 seconds before the nag comes up. If, however, I touch the exhillerator pedal, the nag will come up instantly. This is 100% repeatable and I had it in the previous version too.

Have you got your foot on the pedal, even lightly? If so, try making a conscious effort to move it clear of the pedal and see if you get less nags.

I get the feeling that you guys in the US now have a different nag algorithm to cars outside the US so you might not get the same behaviour as me but I am interested to see if this is repeatable for you guys.

Can anyone else outside the US replicate my findings? Engage EAP then press the exhillerator pedal and see if you get the nag instantly.
Ap 2018.18.12. Same deal here in the US. As soon as I touch the accelerator, I get the nag. On the Highway only, I use 6oz of weights to avoid the nags. I find this a much more relaxed drive. Like an airplane, I still maintain a constant vigil, watching for traffic and objects on the road. It just relieves me from constantly twitching to avoid nags.

I engage AP in city use to help the neural network, primarily in areas where I know I will be overriding AP. This is in hopes the Neural Network is learning.
 

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