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Updated autopilot sucks!

the whole AP experience while holding the wheel and constantly trying to apply small amounts of resistance/torque (and still getting nagged every now and then) is now stressful enough that it’s no better FOR ME than to just use TACC.

If I’m putting so much work to get nags to go away, might as well steer myself on mostly straight highways.

That would suck. FOR ME the weight of my one arm holding the wheel is enough. I don't need to apply extra torque - just holding the wheel with one hand suffices. Left elbow on door windowsill, left hand on wheel around 9 o'clock. Or (either) arm in lap, hand resting on wheel at 5 or 7 o'clock. No need to exert turning pressure. Sometimes the latter position doesn't quite apply enough torque if I'm resting my hand too close to 6 o'clock. I hope this technique will work for you too.

21.9 has been fine for me. Showing the cars in other lanes get s shrug from me, as I can already see them by looking out the windshield! They don't appear in the most useful place - alongside. Many have pointed out the same thing so I hope an update will exploit the side cameras to reveal blind-spot vehicles.
 
21.9 is okay for me. Nags are very easy to cancel as before and don't get that many anyway while holding the wheel. Only odd behaviour is the diving into side junctions for no good reason, but only seems to do that at low speed on certain roads. No problems at higher speeds and still amazing on dual carriageways. Haven't had chance to test auto-lane change yet as it's still disabled on most of our dual carriageways, which is a shame.

The other major change I've noticed is that it's now much better at slowing for sharper bends when using TACC or AS. It seems to have learned a few of our local roads quite well. Previously it would just barrel in to a bend at full speed and then run wide on AS, but now it slows down for some bends. Still not perfect in this respect (for some bends it slows a bit too late and then carries on braking through the apex when it should really be starting to accelerate again, but definitely a good step forward from running wide instead!
 
I was surprised that we made it through one of our test intersections for the first time last night. In the past, we were able to lock on to a lead car but then 2018.10.4 broke that functionality. Glad to see it got better with this update!

Does this mean you've been repeated using AP at a surface street intersection where (I) you know it has never worked in the past and (ii) despite the fact that Tesla says its not meant for use on that sort of street?
 

Barklikeadog

Active Member
Jul 13, 2016
2,045
2,096
PA
It's simple. You drive the car, if it crashes into a stationary object, it's your fault.

Doesn't matter if it's a barrier, stopped truck or debris in your lane.

Should not matter if you were driving it, using cruise control or AP. Its ultimately your responsibility what your car does.

Anyone here that's ever driven above the speed limit has broken the law. So please don't tell me how I'm holding my steering wheel wrong or how people like me ruin everything for people like your... It's not us against them.

We just want to use our car as responsible adults.
if the AEB didn't work as advertised, it's your fault
if the airbags didn't go off as advertised, it's your fault
battery fires...driver!
 
Usually, I side and find myself with the majority here and will place on a flak jacket now.

I consider myself a cautious driver. I usually only use AP when on the way to my moms which is a Freeway drive I know well. I also use it sometimes in stop and go freeway traffic.

When I do use AP both hands are on the wheel and my foot hovers over the brake.

Headed to my moms today, put the car in AP and was nagged quite often. As some have said multiple times a minute. I usually never get nagged because my hands are on the wheel.

I tried various locations for my hands on the wheel to make it happy. When I got to its happy place it became a game of pressure. I then realized the amount of pressure was more than driving without AP and trying to figure out what would make AP happy I found more distracting than simply driving the car and keeping my eyes where they should be.

I am sure some of you will say then I am not putting enough pressure on the wheel when I drive without AP, etc. I am prepared for that. I think I am self-aware in my cautious driving habits to say I do not handle a steering wheel leisurely or lightly.

I also realized Tesla and my logs did not think I had my hands on the wheel. I disengaged AP and also did not use it on the way home.

Also, the warning to me looks different. I had a thin white line only on the top of the dash. I remember it being a white border around the entire dash. That might have changed at another time, however. I have not been keeping up with changes in software updates like I used to.

I only headed to the boards tonight to see if there was a discussion about the new nags. Expected to see a longish thread and hoped to see some information from Tesla. What I did not expect to see was the number of people not impacted which in actuality is a good thing.
 

DCGOO

Active Member
Supporting Member
Nov 24, 2015
2,933
2,042
Indianapolis, IN
Also, the warning to me looks different. I had a thin white line only on the top of the dash. I remember it being a white border around the entire dash. That might have changed at another time, however. I have not been keeping up with changes in software updates like I used to.

No, that change was new with 2018.21. I was on 2018.18 before .21, and it still produced the warning with the full border flashing warning. Personally I think the full border was more obvious. Honestly though, you have already been warned 2 or 3 times before the border begins to flash. If you exert an occasional slight rotational force on the wheel, you can go hours without being nagged. I hardly ever get reminded, and noticed no difference between .18 and .21 on my S. (another week ‘til my X arrives <sigh>). Maybe the slate trim will help with that too.
 
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Joe F

Disruption is hard.
Sep 19, 2016
2,065
10,229
Outside Philly
Headed to my moms today, put the car in AP and was nagged quite often. As some have said multiple times a minute. I usually never get nagged because my hands are on the wheel.

I tried various locations for my hands on the wheel to make it happy. When I got to its happy place it became a game of pressure. I then realized the amount of pressure was more than driving without AP and trying to figure out what would make AP happy I found more distracting than simply driving the car and keeping my eyes where they should be.

Reboot using both scroll wheels, try again. Didn’t work?
Toggle AutoSteer off/on in settings, try again. Didn’t work?
Toggle AutoPilot in settings and try again.

Should be back to normal by now. Let us know which step fixed it for you.
 
I understand it is all about the torque on the wheel the car sees. If this is how it is going to be from now on why they don't implement some kind of torque status like the orange/green arch for the power which shows you silently the amount of torque it senses and when it is not enough. This will eliminate all the gues work and will reduce the frustration by a lot.

I start to believe that most of frustration for me is that I have no idea if I am doing it wrong or not. This unnecessary shifts some of my attention from the road.
 
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I understand it is all about the torque on the wheel the car sees. If this is how it is going to be from now on why they don't implement some kind of torque status like the orange/green arch for the power which shows you silently the amount of torque it senses and when it is not enough. This will eliminate all the gues work and will reduce the frustration by a lot.

I start to believe that most of frustration for me is that I have no idea if I am doing it wrong or not. This unnecessary shifts some of my attention from the road.
I recently watched a video where the driver was hands off and when the Hands on warning appears he used 1 finger to push the bar that goes down to connect to the bottom of the steering wheel to remove the warning. You can see a light push of his finger against the bar and the nag immediately goes away. That is really all the torque that is needed (very little torque). But most of the time the steering wheel moves a little on it's own even when going kind of straight. And in that case no torque (as described here) is needed just at little resistance is all that is needed. Think of resistance as the torque is being done my the car against your resistance. If you find that 2018.21.9 does not work this way or works different then the prior release then you most likely have an issue with your car. I.E. You need to reboot/reset your car (see other posts here) or you need to take it in for service. Hope that helps.
 
@MattMatt - could you please explain why exactly you disagree with my post?

Thanks in advance

I have driven a couple hundred miles on this new update, I have gotten maybe one nag. The reason I get no nags is that I always have my hands on the wheel and am alert paying attention to what the car is doing (which is still way easier and way more relaxing then driving myself).

The people who don't pay attention, or don't hold the wheel now get more nags, which forces them to pay attention more by annoying them. The only exception to this is people who seem to have bad torque senors ( which sometimes is fixed by a reboot (found in some other post here)).

Therefore I disagree that this doesn't at least help solve the problem of people not paying attention. Sure Tesla Autopilot programming needs works, sure Tesla marketing is overly optimistic (like every other company), but I would rather take it in the state is in now, then be forced to wait for them to achieve perfection in trying to navigate a very complicated world. Use the current system in a way that it is currently designed for, including having your hands on the wheel and it works like a champ. Absolutely love it, and absolutely would buy it again, to date I've seen no competition, not to mention that month by month it gets better.

My two cents, since you asked..

Matt
 
I have driven a couple hundred miles on this new update, I have gotten maybe one nag. The reason I get no nags is that I always have my hands on the wheel and am alert paying attention to what the car is doing (which is still way easier and way more relaxing then driving myself).

The people who don't pay attention, or don't hold the wheel now get more nags, which forces them to pay attention more by annoying them. The only exception to this is people who seem to have bad torque senors ( which sometimes is fixed by a reboot (found in some other post here)).

Therefore I disagree that this doesn't at least help solve the problem of people not paying attention. Sure Tesla Autopilot programming needs works, sure Tesla marketing is overly optimistic (like every other company), but I would rather take it in the state is in now, then be forced to wait for them to achieve perfection in trying to navigate a very complicated world. Use the current system in a way that it is currently designed for, including having your hands on the wheel and it works like a champ. Absolutely love it, and absolutely would buy it again, to date I've seen no competition, not to mention that month by month it gets better.

My two cents, since you asked..

Matt
Hi Matt,

Thank you for your answer.

I am glad that the way you hold the wheel keeps you nag free. With the way I hold it /same way as I hold it when AP is off/ does not satisfy the computer and I got nags constantly. I was getting them before the update but now it is a bit excessive and frustrating.

Regarding solving the problem with more nags - it helps and in is not. It is not helping since this just asks you to apply torque to the wheel which is very different than paying attention. Even if you hold the wheel and still get nags /like me/ it distracts you from the road with so frequent warnings. It helps because some people /like me/ just choose to not use it and drive by themselves.

Regards,
Stan

P.S. I have no problems with you /or anybody else/ to disagree with me. Just wanted to know why. I might be wrong and your reason to disagree with me may help me figure out what is wrong with my opinion.
 
Hi Matt,

Thank you for your answer.

I am glad that the way you hold the wheel keeps you nag free. With the way I hold it /same way as I hold it when AP is off/ does not satisfy the computer and I got nags constantly. I was getting them before the update but now it is a bit excessive and frustrating.

Regarding solving the problem with more nags - it helps and in is not. It is not helping since this just asks you to apply torque to the wheel which is very different than paying attention. Even if you hold the wheel and still get nags /like me/ it distracts you from the road with so frequent warnings. It helps because some people /like me/ just choose to not use it and drive by themselves.

Regards,
Stan

P.S. I have no problems with you /or anybody else/ to disagree with me. Just wanted to know why. I might be wrong and your reason to disagree with me may help me figure out what is wrong with my opinion.
I think where there may be some misunderstanding on the part of people not having any problems (like me). Our understanding is there is NO Difference between the why the torque or resistance works in 2018.21.9 then in prior versions other then they come more quickly based on the speed you are traveling (or distance). So, if you were not getting nags before with the way you hold the steering wheel then you should not be getting them now. But, if you were getting them before like say 50% of the time and those nags came every minute then you would get a nag every 2 minutes. With the new frequency if you get a nag 50% of the time then you might get a nag every 45 seconds. However, if you now get a nag 100% of the time like every 20 seconds then maybe you have a problem with your car. Maybe a reboot/reset/power off etc would help to solve it. Or a visit to a SC.

I follow this guy on youtube. He has done many and is pretty good. You might find it helpful if you are serious about solving the problem.

First part of the video is testing the prior version. Start at about 3min he is testing 2018.21.9 and at about 7min he is giving his review.

 

MorrisonHiker

Well-Known Member
Moderator
Mar 8, 2015
10,772
11,087
Colorado
Does this mean you've been repeated using AP at a surface street intersection where (I) you know it has never worked in the past and (ii) despite the fact that Tesla says its not meant for use on that sort of street?
No. It is an intersection on a highway. Also as I said in my post, it worked fine at that intersection up until version 2018.10.4 when following a lead car.
 
if the AEB didn't work as advertised, it's your fault
if the airbags didn't go off as advertised, it's your fault
battery fires...driver!


Exactly. If it doesn't work as advertised or as instructed.

Tesla has been very clear that you need to hold the steering wheel and be aware of your environment.

Anything that happens with your car is your fault. AP is just a tool like cruise control or launch mode. launch your car in your driveway. If your do and get into an accident it is your fault.

You don't need this silly nagging to hold the wheel like we're dumb children.

Tesla warned us. Anything beyond that is the responsibility of the car owner. You let your kids goof in a 100k car and get killed it's really your responsibility.

Drive fast and hit a barrier, that's not the manufacturer fault.

Please don't baby us.
 
My 1st negative rant re: Tesla since owning for the past 14 months
AP (nag warnings) has regressed significantly in my opinion
I’m so bummed and truly hope Tesla does something soon to provide a better option
So much for relaxing and focusing on the road and surroundings
I find myself focusing on the dash screen looking for the not-so-noticeable nag warnings vs watching the road
To top it off, then I start getting the audio warnings even before the visual warnings
Come on Tesla and come on Tesla attorneys......give us some option to sign off with complete responsibility and remove the damn nags
PLEASE!!!!!
 
I hate that my car occassionally nags me to put my hands on the wheel. I should know better, right? since the car is NOT self driving, or wait, is that what autopilot means? So many real world problems with owning such a technologically advanced car. Maybe I should just go back to ICE cars so I don't have to deal with it. :p
 
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