Updated autopilot sucks!

[d21mike]

Yes, that's exactly what I have been saying for the past two days. I drove 80 miles in my AP2 car and only had a few warnings. I drove 120 miles in an AP2.5 car and probably had over 200 warnings. The other driver had constant warnings as well and eventually gave up on using autopilot for the rest of the 375 mile drive. I never said that our cars required more torque. I've said multiple times that the AP2.5 car has warnings every 20 seconds, no matter how we hold the steering wheel.



I don't understand how you can say there isn't a problem if one car has very few warnings and another car has hundreds. I never once mentioned using differing levels of torque so I don't understand the confusion.

Here's my original message concerning this:

Thanks for the clarification. I think the confusion is that at least some of us "assumed" that you must have to use more torque/resistance because that is what keeps the warnings from coming up. And you are saying it takes the same torque/resistance in both cars but still get the warnings in one of the cars.

This seems to be a hard one to solve....

Good luck....

 

[MelaniainLA]

I think where there may be some misunderstanding on the part of people not having any problems (like me). Our understanding is there is NO Difference between the why the torque or resistance works in 2018.21.9 then in prior versions other then they come more quickly based on the speed you are traveling (or distance). O

Someone needs to make a phone holder that clips to the steering wheel and applies the necessary torque.

Know what happens when you do this? You get into an accident and your phone plus it’s “holder” turn into projectiles (“bullets”), hurled at you at hundreds of miles an hour at point blank distance when airbags deploy, causing a minor airbag deployment accident to turn into a fatal one.

There’s a reason we don’t attach stuff to the wheel: it’s UNSAFE and deadly.

Folks: it’s easy. Let’s end this discussion now. Use AP with both hands resting on the bottom of the wheel, gently swinging side to side. I don’t get nags because I do that. How hard is that?? No oranges apples or pears. No AP “Buddy,”. No jumping in the backseat or attaching your iPhone to the wheel. Just drive safely. AP was never ever sold as a full self driving feature. If you assumed it was, you didn’t do your research.

BTW AutoPilot Buddy was just made illegal in the USA. Expect their eBay prices to go up up up!

Device to trick Tesla Autopilot banned from sale in US - CNN Money https://apple.news/AWrFQS_QmRwq9gPLz5ZXszA

 

[Need]

I think most of the people that saw the difference are coming from AP1? I had an AP1 loaner for 2 weeks and it never nags even if there were no hands on the wheel for minutes. With my AP2.5 there is no way I could get it not to nag if I have both hands perfectly balanced on the wheel which is how I normally drive. So i switched to one hand on the side of the wheel which stopped the nagging but less safe.

 

[MIT_S60]

You said the following earlier where your AP2 car does not have as much of a problem. Are you now saying the your AP2 car does not get the warning every 20 seconds and your AP2.5 car does? And you are going the same SPEED (which has a direct impact on frequency)?

If you are saying the torque is the same then my guess is your do not have a problem. From what I have been hearing and maybe I misunderstood is that you have to use more TORQUE on some cars. Can you see the confusion?


Do you have an AP2.5 car? We're seeing similar issues with our AP2.5 car. Our AP2 cars aren't nearly as annoying.

I think it's a coincidence MorrisonHiker's AP2 car works fine and AP2.5 doesn't work. My December 2016 AP2 car gets nags all the time while holding the steering wheel.

 

[alcibiades]

Use AP with both hands resting on the bottom of the wheel, gently swinging side to side. I don’t get nags because I do that. How hard is that?? No oranges apples or pears. No AP “Buddy,”. No jumping in the backseat or attaching your iPhone to the wheel. Just drive safely. AP was never ever sold as a full self driving feature. If you assumed it was, you didn’t do your research.

This is just another "You're holding it wrong." I have my hand on the wheel in the exact same way whether AP is on or off. I get nags when AP is on. AP was not sold as FSD, I get that. It also wasn't sold as "AP requires you to hold the wheel in a particular way that might be unnatural for you, but you have to do it because of poor design choices that we aren't going to tell you about OH NO WE JUST TOLD YOU."

 

[SOULPEDL]

Boy, didn't see this thread, there's another long rag about this in the V9 upgrade. Again I think it's model related, maybe should be a survey. Here's my test, I see no issue folks with my Model 3. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/software-update-2018-21-9-75bdbc11.117215/page-41 (post# 801 with my photos).

Sorry, I haven't read all of this thread but seems to be the same stories again. To say it's unsafe that people have to look at their screen to see if there is a warning making it more unsafe seems absurd. Believe me, I've tried to understand the issue and cannot replicate it, so now I'm thinking this is mixed in with Trolls in numbers given our stock squeeze. That's highly logical Captain.

My apologies in advance to those who may have specific models (or habits) that may in fact be responding differently than newer models under V9. It's the only way I can wrap my head around this topic. I recommend we wait until next update likely this week.

 

[MIT_S60]

Boy, didn't see this thread, there's another long rag about this in the V9 upgrade. Again I think it's model related, maybe should be a survey. Here's my test, I see no issue folks with my Model 3. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/software-update-2018-21-9-75bdbc11.117215/page-41 (post# 801 with my photos).

Sorry, I haven't read all of this thread but seems to be the same stories again. To say it's unsafe that people have to look at their screen to see if there is a warning making it more unsafe seems absurd. Believe me, I've tried to understand the issue and cannot replicate it, so now I'm thinking this is mixed in with Trolls in numbers given our stock squeeze. That's highly logical Captain.

My apologies in advance to those who may have specific models (or habits) that may in fact be responding differently than newer models under V9. It's the only way I can wrap my head around this topic. I recommend we wait until next update likely this week.

Apology accepted Not a troll (most of the time, sometimes it can be hard not to be), and don't care about the stock, I just want my car to work without annoying me.

 

[tllt]

I have an AP2.5 X built in Sept 2017 on 2018.21.9 and I haven't noticed any change in nag frequency from previous updates while on AP. I only have to apply a very slight amount of torque to the steering wheel, no more than just lightly holding the wheel and it is fine. I barely get any nag and even when i do, a very slight tug is all that is needed to get rid of it.

 

[GregTexas]

I used to be a beta tester and I complained vigorously about the less safe nag. Now the nag is ridiculous. All they are doing now is encouraging people to try and defeat the nag system so the feature can be used.

 

[mkspeedr]

Ok we should have three separate threads.
1. AP works great - no nags.
2. AP now requires a change in driving style - people who hands are always on the wheel.
3. AP now requires me to stop texting or sleeping and pay attention.

I am part of the second group.

 

[d21mike]

Ok we should have three separate threads.
1. AP works great - no nags.
2. AP now requires a change in driving style - people who hands are always on the wheel.
3. AP now requires me to stop texting or sleeping and pay attention.

I am part of the second group.

Maybe somebody could start a poll. It does seem that most people fit into #1. Or at least works the same as prior versions with hands on the wheel.

May #3 is for those that normally drive with no hands on the wheel and now they are required to place hands on the wheel.

 

[MIT_S60]

Ok we should have three separate threads.
1. AP works great - no nags.
2. AP now requires a change in driving style - people who hands are always on the wheel.
3. AP now requires me to stop texting or sleeping and pay attention.

I am part of the second group.

Does #2 include the "my car sucks at detecting my hands" group?

#3 is an interesting group, since AP doesn't actually require anyone to pay attention with these nags, it just requires torque on the steering wheel. You can still text with one hand and apply torque to the steering wheel with the other hand (not paying attention at all). I guess sleeping might be a bit different, since you might fall asleep and apply too much torque, cancelling AP altogether.

 

[Joe F]

I guess sleeping might be a bit different, since you might fall asleep and apply too much torque, cancelling AP altogether.

That’s the “Please bury me in my Tesla” group.

 

[RR Runabout]

I am an owner of a P100DL...... and I just bought a Volvo XC90 Inscription.... It too has "lane assist" drove it for the first time yesterday with it on... Honestly I was very very surprised on how smooth it steered, how well it tracked to curves and to the changing traffic around me. Comparatively it compares well or better.. Hard to admit at half the cost...

oh, and NO NAGs.....

 

[GregTexas]

oh, and NO NAGs.....

What year model? Last XC90 Inscription I test drove about a year ago had a nag.

 

[tllt]

One thing i didn't see anyone ask yet (or maybe i just missed it) is what is your steering mode set to? I have mine set on comfort (lowest setting). I don't notice any additional nag alerts with my driving style.

Perhaps the level of effort for the detection varies based on the steering mode?

 

[d21mike]

2018 Volvo XC90 Pliot Assist - With NAGS.

The warning is "Apply Steering". Their name appears to be more accurate the "Hold Steering Wheel".

I was wondering what Tesla was going to use and this is not bad.

 

[buttershrimp]

and I just bought a Volvo XC90 Inscription.... It too has "lane assist" drove it for the first time yesterday with it on... Honestly I was very very surprised on how smooth it steered, how well it tracked to curves and to the changing traffic around me. Comparatively it compares well or better.. Hard to admit at half the cost...

oh, and NO NAGs.....

Traitor

 

[brkaus]

Traitor

Went to read thread because buttershrimp posted last. Was not disappointed.

 

[mxnym]

Sorry about that all. My bad. I was going by memory from Jan 2016 when AP2 had no AP features turned on, and all we had was standard cruise control. You know, the dark ages. It was just AutoSteer that had an option to enable it, and you had to acknowledge it on a beta disclaimer screen. Not sure why I thought there was also one for all AP features. Late night bourbon brain fart I suppose.

I doubt there are suddenly AP 2.5 H/W defective H/W: More likely different settings need to be adjusted based on the H/W, and they royally screwed it up.

EDIT: From Jan 2017, not 2016.

There is an auto lane change option, but it is greyed out when auto steer is disabled. Could be what you were thinking of, and I did technically assume that it is treated as off when it auto steer is turned off, but I don't think my issue is software anyway since my steering in comfort has been too stiff most of the time (and compared to most loaners) since I bought the vehicle in September of last year.

My AP2.5 Car was built Sept. 2017 and there is no problem. Very little torque or resistance required.

Just to clarify the problem again. There is a video around here that the guy is "hands off" and when the warning appears he is just using 1 finger (lightly and instantly) to remove the warning. I.E. Just a little torque to make it go away.

You guys are saying that amount of torque will not work on your car? Meaning you have to apply so much torque that it almost takes you out of AS?

If that is true, I would have the video handy when i go into SC for a test drive and say most people say their car works this way but mine does not. If still not convinced ask them if you can go with them on a test drive of another car to verify it. At some point SC should be convinced there is a problem. If not, I can not see how this problem can be resolved. It appears Tesla does not BELIEVE there is any problem other then people simply do not like the frequency of the warnings.

The amount of torque required to take my vehicle out of AS is pretty high and variable, so the amount of torque required to clear the warning doesn't almost take me out of AS in my vehicle, but it might have put you in the next lane in your vehicle. Service believes I'm not happy with my steering, and they admit it's going to be very difficult to diagnose beyond what they've already done saying it's in spec. I don't believe the techs are as familiar with the systems as the users are, and I don't believe showing them such a video would help. I will probably escalate after my next service appointment again fails to resolve my issue.

Yes, that's exactly what I have been saying for the past two days. I drove 80 miles in my AP2 car and only had a few warnings. I drove 120 miles in an AP2.5 car and probably had over 200 warnings. The other driver had constant warnings as well and eventually gave up on using autopilot for the rest of the 375 mile drive. I never said that our cars required more torque. I've said multiple times that the AP2.5 car has warnings every 20 seconds, no matter how we hold the steering wheel.



I don't understand how you can say there isn't a problem if one car has very few warnings and another car has hundreds. I never once mentioned using differing levels of torque so I don't understand the confusion.

Here's my original message concerning this:

Were you on the same road? For your complaint, I suspect road and alignment can have an effect as well. My theory is that if the wheel doesn't turn, it can't detect counter torque, but being out of alignment or on a bad road means you're turning all the time to go straight, so you might try driving the AP2 vehicle on the same road or changing the ride height in the AP2.5 vehicle for a drive to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks for the clarification. I think the confusion is that at least some of us "assumed" that you must have to use more torque/resistance because that is what keeps the warnings from coming up. And you are saying it takes the same torque/resistance in both cars but still get the warnings in one of the cars.

This seems to be a hard one to solve....

Good luck....

I don 't think that's what he' saying. If holding the wheel == being detected in vehicle 2.0 and holding the wheel =/= being detected in vehicle 2.5, it is only necessary to turn the wheel to clear the warning in the other vehicle, so memory of how hard the wheel had to be turned when nagged in vehicle 2.0 in previous versions will be fleeting at best.