Updated autopilot sucks!

[mxnym]

Oh, feature and function parody is most definitely there. Function parity is still somewhat lacking.

(Though it's been getting closer and I've been told there are now some scenarios AP2+ handles better.)

If you've driven both, surely you know that some negligible features exist in AP1 that don't exist in AP2+. That having been said, IMO, AP2.5 handled on/off ramps better than AP1 prior to the silky smooth update and now handles them at parity (a downgrade).

 

[rpm001]

This thread is really interesting. I applied 21.9 yesterday and used autopilot for about 100km worth of windy highway with periods of heavy stop-and-go, and tons of aggressive lane changers in toronto. I keep my hands on the wheel as normal and experienced only one nag that I would say was "excessive". I think the car also seems to be responding a little better to traffic merging in and out, so overall I think this update is a step forward for me!

 

[C3XGarage]

I wanted to address this separately, I didn't quote the message where you were suggesting someone was spreading misinformation when I quoted you, and I wasn't responding to that. However, I am going to now. I do believe certain posts in this thread have some exaggeration to them, including the one you refer to here, but that exaggeration could come from half truths or one-off experiences. For instance, I'm 6'1' and can turn the wheel when steering assist isn't even powered (as happened to me during startup a couple times last year due to a firmware bug), but when I'm driving with EAP and trying to keep my Model X straight where it wants to veer into an on/off ramp, the counter-force I am providing with a firm grip with both hands often leads to a slight swerve away from said on/off ramp if EAP disengages. That is a normal thing in my Model X, and I have been in loaners where it disengages with next to no resistance.

As I mentioned a few posts back, my steering is stiff in general, I have had it to the service center a number of times where diagnosis was attempted on that specific issue and no issue was found (no less than three times). Today, on my first real EAP drive with 2018.21.9, my Model X beeped twice (I've never heard it beep before and there was no card on the IC when it did) and started swerving back and forth within the lane (to be clear I'm not sure if the beeps or the swerving were first), and my firm grip on the wheel trying to keep it straight did not disengage AP in spite of my fighting it. I'm not saying I couldn't have triggered a disengage with more force, but the amount of resistance I was providing most definitely should have disengaged it, however, I am hopeful that was a one-off experience that won't turn into a regular thing. So, while the premise is questionable (and I didn't challenge your questioning it in spite of my experience this morning), I'd suggest you might consider it could be an exaggeration as opposed to a fabrication.

Reasonable post, and agreed. As a side note, I did notice a little more swerving this morning on a stretch of road I drive daily with no issue. No beeping though.

 

[C3XGarage]

This thread is really interesting. I applied 21.9 yesterday and used autopilot for about 100km worth of windy highway with periods of heavy stop-and-go, and tons of aggressive lane changers in toronto. I keep my hands on the wheel as normal and experienced only one nag that I would say was "excessive". I think the car also seems to be responding a little better to traffic merging in and out, so overall I think this update is a step forward for me!

I have a similar experience to you though with one stretch of freeway with ping-ponging where I didn't have before. Merging is definitely better for me though. It also handled a slow 360 degree on-ramp much better though I did disengage during it so not perfect there yet.

 

[Az_Rael]

and my firm grip on the wheel trying to keep it straight did not disengage AP in spite of my fighting it. I'm not saying I couldn't have triggered a disengage with more force, but the amount of resistance I was providing most definitely should have disengaged it,

I have experienced "wrestling" with AP before as well. It ended up taking waaaaay more force than I have ever needed before to make it let go. Once it did let go, it was a bit of a safety hazard with how much the car swerved. It only happened that hard once, and it was several updates ago. I stopped disengaging with the wheel until a few updates later and I still only use the wheel disengage as a last resort.

I have also once had the car NOT recognize my hands no matter how hard I jiggled the wheel. Also software bug seeming, and the only way I solved it was to disengage AP with the stalk and re engage. It was like the torque sensor had gotten locked up and wasn't getting inputs anymore.

I think folks who have never had these troubles are disbelieving of those of us who have had them. Maybe if they experience it in a loaner, there would be more sympathy.

I am not looking forward to 21.9 if it brings back my prior issues with the torque sensor.

I have a mobile service visit tomorrow and I am going to ask the tech if they really cant alter the wheel torque on an individual car basis. I would love to have mine turned down a bit.

 

[modamoda]

(7) If the car shakes due to your wheel torque, either your car needs service or you're doing it way wrong. When in auto-steer, there is a small amount of "play" in the steering wheel where you can move it without the front wheels moving at all. If you move the steering wheel within this zone of play it will satisfy the warning without any effect on the car's travel on the road.

Huh, maybe visiting service center needed. Would you mind what wheel configuration are you using now?
I'm using "comfort" and I should put some torque enough to feel tilting of the car.

 

[flyhigh123]

It's probably just the way i drive. i keep a hand on my knee and guide the steering wheel as needed on long straight drives with light to no traffic, (AP, CRUISE CONTROL, or just regular driving).

Maybe its my car, who knows, esp since we all know how one tesla to the next can vary widly.

And to the guy questioning if i own a tesla, i own 2. convined my mother to buy one as well, and also have over 30+ total referrals to date.

I am no fan boy, and no hater. i stand in the middle and call it like it is. Tesla oversold the feature by calling it "Autopilot" but good marketing sells more right...

 

[jeffro01]

Tesla oversold the feature by calling it "Autopilot" but good marketing sells more right...

I disagree with that specific sentence in your post. Tesla didn't oversell the feature by calling it "Autopilot", the general public has an overinflated sense of what that word actually means...

Jeff

 

[mkspeedr]

I disagree with that specific sentence in your post. Tesla didn't oversell the feature by calling it "Autopilot", the general public has an overinflated sense of what that word actually means...

Jeff

Ok, maybe the general public overinflated the sense of what it actually means but the self driving video overinflated it more than the general public (in my opinion).

 

[jeffro01]

Ok, maybe the general public overinflated the sense of what it actually means but the self driving video overinflated it more than the general public (in my opinion).

Agreed.

Jeff

 

[snoopycr]

Bottom line AP as it is now is not the same AP that was advertised last year by the sales rep along with the test drive.

Updates are suppose to improve the product, not put limitations on a feature that you already paid for.

This annoying AF nagging is a huge limitation. The increased nagging all started when a fellow Tesla got his head decapitated in Florida. And the nagging has only gotten worse with every Tesla accident in the news.

Please don't be so naive to think that every software update is for our benefit.

It sad that other Tesla drivers have to tell me I'm holding the steering wheel wrong... Like how Steve jobs said your holding his iPhone wrong.... Geez. What next, I'm driving too fast? I'm switching Lanes without using my signals etc etc etc

 

[C3XGarage]

I hate the excuse of hiding behind the branding of “Autopilot”. It’s a brand, a marketing term, that’s all.

I think they really should have made all buyers sign a contract stating that they understood all the limitations and that there would be continuous improvements to it over the life of the vehicle and that the driver would be 100% liable at all times unless otherwise stated. As new versions are released over the air, require you to sign on the screen before autopilot can be activated again while clearly communicating what it can now do and everything it can’t, within reason. Maybe even answer a quick few safety questions regarding it. Maybe then, we wouldn’t all be required to operate at the lowest common denominator of being nagged to hold the wheel every 30 seconds and the media wouldn’t be all over Tesla when something happens.

 

[Jdcorbitt3]

When the CEO of Tesla does an interview with NBC and takes his hands off the wheel in front of the cameras, that implies a hands free autopilot.

 

[COrich]

I have never received a nag when driving with one hand on the wheel. But, of course I hold the wheel slightly off-center (at about the 5:00) position and let the weight of my arm put the appropriate torque on the wheel. Seems to work fine for me. I learned to do this over a year ago and it hasn't posed a hardship for me. The drive is still less tiring and stressful even though I have a hand on the wheel.

The problem appears to be that a lot of folks want to be able to drive with hands off the wheel. EAP doesn't support this. You can thank the idiots who post videos with no driver in the seat and those that drive into fire trucks and concrete barriers for this restriction. But, on the other hand, it isn't a self-driving vehicle yet! Don't treat it like it is.

 

[Charliek]

Hi I gotta chime in too. I’m in the US ,just went from .12.4 which I was very happy with to .21.9 on my 2017MS and I gotta say the nags are what seems very random and frequent and before they seem to be a point when thing on the road were different and would warrant a question. Now there seems to be no rhyme or reason AND because the white flashing border (second warning before the beeps) which I really like and got my attention. I could tug at the right time and it would keep going along fine . Now I have to duck to see if the white “line” is on Incase I missed the small initial warning (hey I’m actually looking up at the traffic) and I had the darn thing give me the red lock out screen in the middle of traffic at 70!!! ( if you have never had that happen to you try it some time) It has never done that before . I actually find the extra cars in the lane notation distracting and I find my self looking down at them. There should be an option to toggle that view on or off . Adding that to the IC, though interesting is not keeping people eyes up on the road. My wish list is to bring back the full boarder warning . Get the nags to be only when the computer needs help. Stop the Random Phantom braking (I had been using 3 setting tacc setting ). Seriously look at 12.4 setting that some of us thought were very fluid and compare to the settings sent in 21.9. I got over the initial jumpy ness of the car after the load change (it took a day) and I started tugging on the wheel just any old time to limit the nags, but the phantom braking and lag in startup in stop and go traffic (safer? I may get rear ended!) is really annoying . Really need the full white boarder earring back , I really liked that. I’ll be paitient and wait for the next fix which hopefully will trweak things back a bit.

 

[Charliek]

Also for me the simple tug to see if you are there worked just fine and the alerts were at time when traffic was complicated or the car was coming up on traffic which seem quite reasonable (on version 12.4). When I would hold onto the steering wheel I would knock the autopilot out of lock by trying to turn or do some thing before it did (which was actually more dangerous). This was not less stressful for me . I have found hands on my legs or just resting lightly on the wheel really reduce my difficult commute. The tugs where a nice confirmation that all is well with the car and me And I was more attentive for what other cars where doing instead of locked starring down the road for brake lights at highway speeds. Also also tacc and auto steer did a better job of keeping a good proportional pacing (I use 3) . When in Autpilot I stay in my lane more and don’t jump back and forth looking for slots. The more random nags are consciously annoying at the moment , maybe i’ll get used to them . The more popular the car gets the more untrained and complacent folks get (not trying to be elitist ) but This is why we can’t have nice things.

 

[buttershrimp]

Just had a software update and let me say, this new auto pilot sucks!!!!!

The hands on wheel warning pops up every 20 seconds when in cruise control.

It’s annoying as I need to literally put pressure against the wheel with my hand so it really defeats autopilot. To keep it from coming on every 20 seconds.

Also these warnings are creating an increased distraction from watching the road as I need to take my eyes off the road.

I can no longer recommend autopilot to any referrals.

Let’s just call it driver assist now since this is no longer remotely close to autopilot.

I understand tesla is trying to cover their butt with these recent fatalities but I don’t agree with this new update.

Are you high? Firmware 21.9 is really good for me, but maybe I'm the person that's really high. I'm starting to think that people that get all these nags are driving bad roads or used to driving without a hand on the wheel, or are really high. The issue with this firmware if there is one, is likely the sharp twitch of the wheel on certain curb cuts, but it's not that bad. I see further refinements on the curvy roads.... even at speeds that used to overwhelm AP1 and 2 a few weeks ago.

 

[Sonic_78]

Here's what Elon has to say on the matter....

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

If I don’t install the new update my car might be worth more on the used market. Anyone interested in buying an AP2 car without this lame update, for a slight premium?

 

[wnholt01]

If Tesla never intended for you to remove your hands from the steering wheel, why would they have allowed it for 5 minutes, then 2 minutes, then 1 minute, now 20 seconds.

Just another case of Tesla over promising and under deliverying, what's new. It just in this case they are downgrading a feature that was promoted, demonstrated (at least in my case), and sold at a higher level of autonomy.

Judging from the negative reactions, I wouldn't be surprised if another autopilot related class action lawsuit is in the near future.