driven about 300 miles on the new AP. I haven't noticed the nag any sooner than normal. then again I actually hold my steering wheel 99.9% of the time. haha. for shits and giggles, I took my hands off the wheel and counted how long until the nag. it was at least 30 seconds.
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Updated autopilot sucks!
- Thread starter flyhigh123
- Start date
driven about 300 miles on the new AP. I haven't noticed the nag any sooner than normal. then again I actually hold my steering wheel 99.9% of the time. haha. for shits and giggles, I took my hands off the wheel and counted how long until the nag. it was at least 30 seconds.
Acho
Member
The force I need to apply to get rid of /most/ nagging makes use of autopilot uncomfortable.
I see no point to even bother using it in this condition. If I have to apply this amount of force and think if this makes the computer happy it is better to drive myself.
I've been there already with iPhone antenna gate. It turned out that I was holding my phone not as it was designed to be held. Now I am holding the wheel not as it was designed to be held.
What is next - I don't breath the way air is designed to be inhaled?
I know, I know, my grandma didn't have autopilot at all but still this function is advertised as convenience future.
I see no point to even bother using it in this condition. If I have to apply this amount of force and think if this makes the computer happy it is better to drive myself.
I've been there already with iPhone antenna gate. It turned out that I was holding my phone not as it was designed to be held. Now I am holding the wheel not as it was designed to be held.
What is next - I don't breath the way air is designed to be inhaled?
I know, I know, my grandma didn't have autopilot at all but still this function is advertised as convenience future.
Shock-On-T
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Maybe your success is due to only having one hand on the wheel.
If people have two hands maybe it’s balancjng too wheel and the torques are cancelling.
Shock-On-T
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Not to be too pedantic (oh ok I will) but:
The two seconds needed to turn the wheel and for brain to react are required in both scenarios. And I think all the measurements would be sub-1s.
Agreed it’s safer to keep hands on wheel, but it’s safer still to be actually steering (which would maximise attention).
I bought AP so it could steer, not me.
Shock-On-T
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You have to “ghandi” the wheel. Apply gentle resistance, rather than jiggle it.
tescroft
In Musk, we trust.
Tesla is making existing cars worse over time, in order to be able to sell new ones or in this case software upgrades. For other electronics, it is called planned obsolescence.
When Autopilot came out first, it was a true hands off experience, no nags at all. That is what people bought, and test drived, and payed for. What we get now with software update is something different. Its the same commodity every car manufacturer offers. No more USP for Tesla. What a disappointment.
The "hands on" for Autosteer requirement is so silly and does not help being attentive at all. There is also no "foot on" requirement for cruise control.
When Autopilot came out first, it was a true hands off experience, no nags at all. That is what people bought, and test drived, and payed for. What we get now with software update is something different. Its the same commodity every car manufacturer offers. No more USP for Tesla. What a disappointment.
The "hands on" for Autosteer requirement is so silly and does not help being attentive at all. There is also no "foot on" requirement for cruise control.
thecloud
As rhythm raced inside, the ship came alive
Here's how I see this:
I don't mind nags at all. For all I care, they could happen every 10 seconds. Or 5 seconds. Or even at 0 seconds, when hands are not on the wheel.
What I do mind is that hands are not recognized reliably on the steering wheel especially in the safest driving position, which is two hands on the steering wheel. The way I see it, this is the issue for a lot of people. Hands - plural - are not recognized on the steering wheel.
In fact, even as we say "keep hands on wheel", we actually acknowledge right after that most do not. Most keep only a single hand - singular - on the wheel and there is a reason for that and the reason is not safety...
I see people - myself included - encouraging each other single-handed driving to counter the issues with the nags. While better than no hands, one hand is much worse for safety than two-hand driving. A single hand is not necessarily enough to properly counter a sudden steering mistake - which can happen - or, in any case, it is not optimal. But as two hands on the wheel tend to cancel the torque out, so the safest driving position actually gets more nags than a less safe one.
Mercedes Benz uses capacitive hand recognition on steering wheel - for a reason. Perhaps the "crux of the matter" is this: better hand (or other driver attention) recognition is needed in Teslas as well.
Keeping hands on the steering wheel is fine. Having to juggle the wheel to make it know they are there is not.
I don't mind nags at all. For all I care, they could happen every 10 seconds. Or 5 seconds. Or even at 0 seconds, when hands are not on the wheel.
What I do mind is that hands are not recognized reliably on the steering wheel especially in the safest driving position, which is two hands on the steering wheel. The way I see it, this is the issue for a lot of people. Hands - plural - are not recognized on the steering wheel.
In fact, even as we say "keep hands on wheel", we actually acknowledge right after that most do not. Most keep only a single hand - singular - on the wheel and there is a reason for that and the reason is not safety...
I see people - myself included - encouraging each other single-handed driving to counter the issues with the nags. While better than no hands, one hand is much worse for safety than two-hand driving. A single hand is not necessarily enough to properly counter a sudden steering mistake - which can happen - or, in any case, it is not optimal. But as two hands on the wheel tend to cancel the torque out, so the safest driving position actually gets more nags than a less safe one.
Mercedes Benz uses capacitive hand recognition on steering wheel - for a reason. Perhaps the "crux of the matter" is this: better hand (or other driver attention) recognition is needed in Teslas as well.
Keeping hands on the steering wheel is fine. Having to juggle the wheel to make it know they are there is not.
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Hands on is fine. The problem is not being able to accurately detect hands on!
The UI of the nag is also not ideal. The nag is not visible enough when I'm just looking straight to the road condition. But I'm now paranoid to keep looking at the dash every 10 seconds or so just to check if my car can register my hands, which is unnatural to the driving experience because beside checking for nag, there is not much reason for me to check the dashboard during autopilot.
Constantly monitoring how much force I need to apply to the wheel in order for the system to register my hands is actually very distracting as well. Some people might be able to perfect the art of it, but I bet most people are just as frustrated as me.
The UI of the nag is also not ideal. The nag is not visible enough when I'm just looking straight to the road condition. But I'm now paranoid to keep looking at the dash every 10 seconds or so just to check if my car can register my hands, which is unnatural to the driving experience because beside checking for nag, there is not much reason for me to check the dashboard during autopilot.
Constantly monitoring how much force I need to apply to the wheel in order for the system to register my hands is actually very distracting as well. Some people might be able to perfect the art of it, but I bet most people are just as frustrated as me.
tescroft
In Musk, we trust.
Teslas move will simply lead to the point where people start ordering Autopilot Buddy or other nag-prevention tools. Autopilot with hands off capability was the reason a lot of people bought the car. They will not accept removing that feature. The flawfull hands on detection is a good indication that Autopilot is not designed at all to be constantly hands on.
But that is a very scary thing, since AP is not remotely capable of hands-off driving in the real world. It's good at what it does but not that good to be trusted hands-off. It hasn't ended well for those who have trusted it completely.
What the system does need is touch sensors on the steering wheel so you don't have to apply torque to show that you are still there. Add in an eye detector and then you have a more robust driver detection system.
tescroft
In Musk, we trust.
You confuse hands-off with not being attentive. The people died because they were playing on the phone or watching video. it is as simple as that.
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So you are saying Tesla is intentionally trying to make ownership experiences more miserable over time just so you want to buy another Tesla?
Autopilot update installed last night. I too found the ‘nag’ every 30 seconds extremely annoying. Might as well not have autopilot.
If you're holding the steering wheel normally - and still getting the nags, report the problem to Tesla - and get them to fix it.
It's likely Tesla has overreacted (like they did when they disabled air suspension after the early accident with the trailer hitch) - and they'll have to back off a little on the hand sensing.
Or the issue is affecting only some of the cars - which could be an adjustment to get the detection at an acceptable level.
It's likely Tesla has overreacted (like they did when they disabled air suspension after the early accident with the trailer hitch) - and they'll have to back off a little on the hand sensing.
Or the issue is affecting only some of the cars - which could be an adjustment to get the detection at an acceptable level.
I think this is most likely. Unlike most posters discussing this, I don't think holding the wheel any particular way has much to do with it. I think it takes the right alignment and the right road for people to get false positives.
I was with you until you said this. Roads are shared, and you should communicate with other drivers for the shared safety benefit of all. I usually signal even when no cars are around because it's a lot easier to maintain the habit than to try to remember to signal when someone might see it.
I've gotten the impression from older posts that there is such a digital contract in the car and the delivery specialists are signing for you before you can see it. I don't have an answer as to why (maybe they determined it wasn't effective or legally binding, maybe there were some not-so-great unilateral decisions made somewhere to lead to that, or maybe it doesn't even happen with AP2.5).
No, it's more an increased reaction time issue. If your hands are not on the wheel, that means your reaction time to an AP problem would be that much slower. If you take the classic scenario where you are following a car on AP and it suddenly swerves to avoid a stationary object at the last second, hands on you may just react in time, hands off and you are almost certainly going to crash.
I do occasionally take my hands off the wheel while using AP (e.g. to put on sunglasses) but only in situations where I know AP is extremely unlikely to go wrong and not often long enough to get a nag anyway. There's no way I would drive long distance hands off with AP even if it allowed me to.
GOPJEW
Member
I agree! Just did a 600 mile road trip and even though my hands were ON the wheel - every few seconds I needed to take my eyes off of the road and turn wheel hard (which causes vehicle to move slightly) so It knew!
If you are going to make the reminder so regular give us all new steering wheels with sensors in them...my hands WERE on the wheel (even using voice commands, changing volume, etc).
21.9 - one hand resting on wheel, no nags for me – except once when I had actually entirely released the wheel.
Two hands never worked for me on prior software releases either, since a lot of my commute is straight or gently curving, and it would never detect torque from my balanced hands.
edit: March 2017 X, "standard" steering selected.
Two hands never worked for me on prior software releases either, since a lot of my commute is straight or gently curving, and it would never detect torque from my balanced hands.
edit: March 2017 X, "standard" steering selected.
