Updated autopilot sucks!

[Electroman]

The requirement to keep your hands on the wheel for AP is like requiring you to keep your foot on the "gas" for cruise control. What's the point?

Great analogy.. or you can say the requirement to keep the foot on the break pedal.

The point is, forcing to keep your hands on the wheel does nothing to improve safety. Safety is improved only by the driver watching the road and being aware of the surroundings.

This whole nag is actually very distracting and will force many not to use AP. I haven't updated yet, and I hate the apparently lower frequency nags that I get today.

 

[buttershrimp]

I decide to find it. It is the "i1Tesla" youtube channel. She really does not like the new update until you get to about 4:50 into the video where she talks about the REBOOT she and her husband did. I also think she did a good job with maybe her first video.

Man, and I thought my videos were bad. That was like watching Bjorn after way too much Benadryl.

 

[eye.surgeon]

Cadillac supercruise is designed for hands off driving and it works great on the freeway. no nags. Just saying, it can be done.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Instead of hands on wheel, Supercruise uses a camera making sure you are keeping your eyes on the road. Avert your eyes and supercruise gives you an even harsher nag.

 

[Jigglypuff]

The requirement to keep your hands on the wheel for AP is like requiring you to keep your foot on the "gas" for cruise control. What's the point?

The point is that autopilot isn't anywhere near good enough to get the amount of trust it gets. Consumer and Tesla tech isn't anywhere near good enough. Attentiveness makes good driving.

 

[Electroman]

So how does annoying you to torque the wheel every 15 seconds make the driver more attentive?

 

[realvvk]

So how does annoying you to torque the wheel every 15 seconds make the driver more attentive?

Also, what is the point of the Autopilot if you have to keep your hands on the wheel? How is that autopilot?

The Autopilot steers, the driver watches the road. Separation of duties. If I have to keep my hands on the wheel, why would I want to use the Autopilot? I personally wouldn't. And I wouldn't buy the car at this price. I did not pay $100k to keep my hands on the wheel.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Also, what is the point of the Autopilot if you have to keep your hands on the wheel? How is that autopilot?

The Autopilot steers, the driver watches the road. Separation of duties. If I have to keep my hands on the wheel, why would I want to use the Autopilot? I personally wouldn't. And I wouldn't buy the car at this price. I did not pay $100k to keep my hands on the wheel.

There, that`s the big problem riiiight there.
The Tesla Autopilot is NOT an Autopilot, despite its name, and a lot of consumers don`t understand that because product presentation and what`s described in the legal documentation is not in line at all.

Despite its name right now it`s "just" a stupid level 2 center-lane assistance system that in no way should allow the driver to "trust" it.

People who think paying amount xy should entitle you to treat a level 2 system like a level 4+ system is why the nags will only get more and more annoying---unless Tesla implements some different approach to track driver awareness.

 

[realvvk]

Despite its name right now its "just" a stupid and unreliable level 2 center-lane assistance system that in no way should allow the driver to "trust" it.

Please explain, and I would really like to understand, so please make me. How does holding the wheel does NOT allow me to trust the "cencter-lane assistance system?" Please, I am all ears. I see plenty of people in traffic holding the wheel and engrossed in their facebook feed on their phone! How is that better than me focusing on watching the road instead of holding the wheel and pushing the pedals? The bottom line is that the driver is responsible for the safety of his driving.

 

[thegruf]

Cadillac supercruise is designed for hands off driving and it works great on the freeway. no nags. Just saying, it can be done.

It might have you looking in the right direction but are you paying attention?
I contend that it is quite easy to be looking ahead sufficent to satisfy the system without really observing what is going on, particularly after endless miles of assisted driving on a freeway.
GM have a tiny amount of cars in their fleet fitted with this tech at this time compared to Tesla, when they have 100,000+ cars out there I bet we will see the occasional stupid accident with this system as well.

Quantity really is Tesla's biggest problem now - the sheer number of cars just means statisitcally sh*t is going to happen from time to time and ofc the good stuff about lower overall accident rates just doesn't make headlines.

(fwiw for L2 systems personally I think both eye tracking and steering wheel nags are the preferential solution)

 

[Phrixotrichus]

Please explain, and I would really like to understand, so please make me. How does holding the wheel does NOT allow me to trust the "cencter-lane assistance system?" Please, I am all ears. I see plenty of people in traffic holding the wheel and engrossed in their facebook feed on their phone! How is that better than me focusing on watching the road instead of holding the wheel and pushing the pedals? The bottom line is that the driver is responsible for the safety of his driving.

Please tell me about all the other hardware possibilities Tesla has in its current fleet to do the mandatory driver awareness checks. The bottom line is that Tesla has to do the checks or will get sued for every penny they have.

 

[realvvk]

Please tell me about all the other hardware possibilities Tesla has in its current fleet to do the mandatory driver awareness checks.

NO WAY to do it. Just like there is no way to ensure that gun owners will not murder. Any driver of any car has the ability to crash very easily if he is not paying attention. We all own and use very dangerous things every day of our lives. We don't allow little kids to use the gas burners in the kitchen because they are not responsible enough not to burn off their hands. However, we as adults are capable to use a gas stove to cook without burning down the house. They are still dangerous and cause fatal house fires every day. Do we create naggings warning that remind us that gas stoves are to be attended at all times? No. We put the responsibility on the user. Thousands of examples like that. Cars are dangerous. Drivers are responsible for safety. No way around it. No amount of nagging will make it safer if the driver does not take the responsibility for safety seriously.

 

[SSonnentag]

It's in Tesla's best interest, legally, to NOT detect hands on the wheel very well. It leaves them a way to blame the driver when AP fails and causes accidents.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

NO WAY to do it. Just like there is no way to ensure that gun owners will not murder. Any driver of any car has the ability to crash very easily if he is not paying attention. We all own and use very dangerous things every day of our lives. We don't allow little kids to use the gas burners in the kitchen because they are not responsible enough not to burn off their hands. However, we as adults are capable to use a gas stove to cook without burning down the house. They are still dangerous and cause fatal house fires every day. Do we create naggings warning that remind us that gas stoves are to be attended at all times? No. We put the responsibility on the user. Thousands of examples like that. Cars are dangerous. Drivers are responsible for safety. No way around it. No amount of nagging will make it safer if the driver does not take the responsibility for safety seriously.

Laws, regulations and warnings are always made because of the dumbest 5%, that`s how it has always been.
Deal with it or risk to get punished trying to circumvent it.

Thank the people who put videos of them riding in the backseat with engaged AP on youtube.
Thank the idiots who trusted their AP to identify firetrucks, lane dividers or crossing vehicles....

Tesla has to do it the way they do it now with their current hardware until they release a re-design or are ready to officially label their system level 4+ with all the legal responsibilities this brings.

 

[jlewisthe3rd]

Just want to chime in here...as people have mentioned Autopilot SHOULD be a hands-off system. What is currently billed as Autopilot is actually CO-PILOT and is a hands-on system. Technically it could be hands-off BUT Tesla doesn't have a effective way of transferring control of driving to the driver in the time necessary to avoid an issue if a person is hands-off. This was the best example of what Autopilot SHOULD be as a hands-off system:

As for what we have now I use this approach and have never had an issue with nags and it doesn't feel counter-intuitive by having my "hand on the wheel". I get all the freedom of hands-off but with comfort of having my hand at the ready should AP not handle a situation:

 

[drift]

There, that`s the big problem riiiight there.
The Tesla Autopilot is NOT an Autopilot, despite its name, and a lot of consumers don`t understand that because product presentation and what`s described in the legal documentation is not in line at all.

Despite its name right now it`s "just" a stupid level 2 center-lane assistance system that in no way should allow the driver to "trust" it.

People who think paying amount xy should entitle you to treat a level 2 system like a level 4+ system is why the nags will only get more and more annoying---unless Tesla implements some different approach to track driver awareness.

Here is a problem with the discussion. Most people have a misconception of what an autopilot is. An autopilot is pilot assistance equipment that will maintain an aircraft altitude, heading or airspeed or any combination there of that the pilot selects. It is still the pilots responsibility to pilot the aircraft which is more than just moving the yoke or pedals. It is maintaining full situational awareness and taking the necessary actions required to ensure the safe completion of the flight. Just as driving a car is more than just moving the steering wheel or pushing the pedals, but as the accidents show many drivers fail at actually driving the car. Until we reach full autonomous driving it is still the person behind the wheel that is responsible to do what is required to ensure the safe operation of the car regardless of what systems they choose to use or what they are called.

 

[d21mike]

I think the biggest problem for Tesla at this point is the car is still not SAFE for hands-off AP. We all blame the driver "as we should" for the recent accidents. But if the car was perfectly safe pretty much all of the accidents would not have happened. The car should have stopped for the fire truck. The car should not have hit the median divider. Once the car is much safer the the human driver then things will probably change.

Again, for me resting my hand on the steering wheel (with ZERO Nags) is not much different then resting them on my lap. I don't really have a issue with this "hands on" approach at this time. As FSD Features get added and the car gets better and not hitting objects in its path I believe this will change.

 

[Joetnr1]

Wow, had my first drive with the new AP yesterday. What a pile of steaming garbage this update was.

Not only are the nags annoying, they’re straight up dangerous. First off, constantly looking at the dash for visual warnings is wildly distracting. Secondly, the recognition system for the ‘hands on’ is just awful, especially when you’re on a dead straight road. You almost need to turn the wheel to get it to recognize your hands. This is going to cause problems. The constant grabbing of the wheel is going to cause more people to unknowingly disengage AP and continue to drive.

The notion that AP is not supposed to be hands free is ridiculous. It’s how they sell these cars. I’d like to hear ONE person tell a story about how they were test driving and the Tesla employee told them to keep their hands on the wheel.

 

[TJtv]

I don't understand why Tesla can't sense hands-on-wheel using something like an electrical resistance/capacative measurement. Think of something like the heartbeat sensors on exercise equipment, it should work like that. I understand why they could not do that when they first instituted the "hold the wheel" nags because they needed a quick firmware update to existing cars and sensing torque applied to the wheel gave them the firmware update they were looking for. But that was years ago, they've had ample time to implement a hardware change that didn't produce so many false "you're not holding the wheel" alerts.

 

[tescroft]

The Tesla Autopilot is NOT an Autopilot, despite its name, and a lot of consumers don`t understand that ....

No. Autopilot is the perfect name for the system Tesla currently has.

Similar to early Aircraft autopilot implementations, it does some functions automatically, like rudder and trim adjustments according to a gyroscope based sensors (Autosteer based on line markings) or speed control based on air flow sensors (TACC with radar and camera) and desired target speed. These systems allowed hands and foot free flying within certain parameters. There was certainly no nagging if the pilot did not touch the pilot stick for a certain amount of time, although aircraft autopilots did and do not handle everything, are not autonomous at all.

A swarm of birds flying into the plain? Aircraft autopilots fail in avoiding this crash.
Another plane crossing the preprogrammed route? Aircraft autopilot failes, even today. The pilot needs to be aware and listen to radio from air-traffic-control to handle that. Early aircraft autopilots did not have navigation capabilites at all. Later versions included radio-navigation aids and today GPS.

Modern aircraft are acompanied by other systems like TCAS to avoid collisions with other aircrafts having the same system, but they're still not autonomous in terms of handling every situation that could arise during a flight (like thunderstorms in the pathway or unexpected small obstacles like drones). Still, the term autopilot is used since decades. Teslas system is way superior and offers more functionality to early aircraft systems which have been called Autopilot. Therefore, it is very legitimate to call the Tesla system an autopilot.

BTW: here is an article from 1947 where the term autopilot is used for a rudimentary aircraft system.