Updated autopilot sucks!

[bob_p]

Made two 200 mile drives over the last few days.

The only time I got a nag was when I spent too long pulling a (non-alcoholic) drink out of our cooler and opening it before putting a hand back on the wheel - and fully expected the nag to warn me when I was doing this.

Other than that - no nags, with AutoSteer engaged from most of the drives, and one or two hands holding the steering wheel lightly at the bottom.

At least with our S 100D, don't see any issues with the nag changes - and AP seems to be getting better (still gets a little confused with some of the exit ramps).

 

[ToddRLockwood]

It’s annoying as I need to literally put pressure against the wheel with my hand so it really defeats autopilot. To keep it from coming on every 20 seconds.

Just in case you were not aware, Autopilot does not detect your hand gripping the steering wheel. Instead, it senses slight resistance against the motor that turns the wheel. All that is required is finger tips at the bottom of the wheel providing a little resistance.

 

[tllt]

Got 2018.21.9 installed the other day and the nag behavior seems the same for me based on my driving habits. I tried AP on the same roads that I've always used it on and I haven't noticed any difference/increase in nag time.

 

[travwill]

Ug, i have to add to this as well in saying yesterday was my first time to ever get nagged so much and apparently miss the warnings so much it disabled and i got punished for the rest of the drive. This was in slow crowded traffic which used to never issue warnings really as had good locks on cars, lines, and lower speeds. It takes a nice little tug to remove the warning even.

Grrrrr... now i do feel AP is not as useful.

 

[banned-66611]

Someone needs to make a phone holder that clips to the steering wheel and applies the necessary torque.

 

[ap3100]

Someone needs to make a phone holder that clips to the steering wheel and applies the necessary torque.

you maybe on to something here hmm

 

[Pilot Steve]

I agree with all this discussion couldn't they come out with a better release?. This is supposed to be a smart car equipped with cameras and sensors to guide the car. You would think the car would know heavy traffic, light tragic, stop and go traffic and would enable a higher functioning AP. What I mean by that is... When the car senses stop and go and doesn't go higher them 35-45 mph that it would disengage the nags to be fewer, same with light traffic or freeway driving with little traffic that it would nag is every 5 miles or so. In heavy traffic bring on the nagging to keep me on my toes and more observant. If we have a smart car why can't it learn ie figure out what traffic we drive in. I'm all for safety but let's refine how it sees traffic. I watched the video of full AP and was impressed that it stopped at lights and turned onto multiple roadways and even parked itself with know one inside. I was excited to feel I was driving the future's. I could see Musk's vision of transportation of the future. Now I see placating to lawyers the fear of the general public that AP is not safe. Even though Tesla is not the only one with drive assist being sold. I have faith this will get fixed but Tesla needs to be a leader not someone who cowers every time something goes wrong. I hope my faith was not misplaced. If Tesla is reading this...be a leader, an innovator of a better a future. Now give us back a smarter and cleaner AP. Just my $.02

 

[mxnym]

It’s the X or rather AP2.5 that somehow doesn’t detect my hands no matter what “natural” way I try: 10-2, 5, 8.. no matter what I do, it starts nagging and now more frequently.

At the very least I would like them to make the torque sensitivity as high as possible but I suspect it’s a hardware issue. Some combination of X and AP2.5 and my specific vehicle parts/calibration just doesn’t work as it does on the S.

This is the real frustration. On top of that, users who are not facing this issue believe that either we are lying or don’t want to hold the wheel when that’s not the case. I’ve showed this issue to the service people twice now and they acknowledge that hands on wheel is not consistent on my vehicle. It’s comical how much turning I have to do to make the nag go away! Frustrating!

I have the same issue as you, and I haven't gotten service to acknowledge it, but I have other steering issues as well. Unfortunately, even after going over it three times, all I get back is "everything is normal" and they always go back to the amp draw in the DAS module as if they don't understand that a mechanical rack or mechanical steering linkage could cause an issue that might not register in the logs.

I recently watched a video where the driver was hands off and when the Hands on warning appears he used 1 finger to push the bar that goes down to connect to the bottom of the steering wheel to remove the warning. You can see a light push of his finger against the bar and the nag immediately goes away. That is really all the torque that is needed (very little torque). But most of the time the steering wheel moves a little on it's own even when going kind of straight. And in that case no torque (as described here) is needed just at little resistance is all that is needed. Think of resistance as the torque is being done my the car against your resistance. If you find that 2018.21.9 does not work this way or works different then the prior release then you most likely have an issue with your car. I.E. You need to reboot/reset your car (see other posts here) or you need to take it in for service. Hope that helps.

Except that only works in some vehicles, in others, it takes much more force, and I've yet to see anyone suggest that service has solved this issue for them.

Now for my gripe: I never got an audible warning prior to 2018.21.9, and now I've gotten at least two where there wasn't an apparent preceding visual warning. In one case, I was actually actively fighting the steering when I got the audible warning, and in the other, I had just engaged within a number of seconds when I got the audible warning and saw the card come up after the sound had already been triggered. In a third case, I got it, but I can't guarantee there was no visual warning because I couldn't see the IC due to the crappy sun visor not blocking the right part of the driver door window. In all three cases, I had at least one hand on the wheel.

 

[d21mike]

I have the same issue as you, and I haven't gotten service to acknowledge it, but I have other steering issues as well. Unfortunately, even after going over it three times, all I get back is "everything is normal" and they always go back to the amp draw in the DAS module as if they don't understand that a mechanical rack or mechanical steering linkage could cause an issue that might not register in the logs.Except that only works in some vehicles, in others, it takes much more force, and I've yet to see anyone suggest that service has solved this issue for them.

Now for my gripe: I never got an audible warning prior to 2018.21.9, and now I've gotten at least two where there wasn't an apparent preceding visual warning. In one case, I was actually actively fighting the steering when I got the audible warning, and in the other, I had just engaged within a number of seconds when I got the audible warning and saw the card come up after the sound had already been triggered. In a third case, I got it, but I can't guarantee there was no visual warning because I couldn't see the IC due to the crappy sun visor not blocking the right part of the driver door window. In all three cases, I had at least one hand on the wheel.

Did you try ALL of the suggestions related to reboot/reset/power off etc? Talked about here multiple times. Even a separate thread on it. Assuming you have done all that and you feel SC will just brush you off. What exactly do you think the problem is? Do you think it is software but only related to a small number of cars? And not related to any type of sensor in those cars? I know you are complaining about it but not sure you have stated what you think the problem is.

 

[mxnym]

Did you try ALL of the suggestions related to reboot/reset/power off etc? Talked about here multiple times. Even a separate thread on it. Assuming you have done all that and you feel SC will just brush you off. What exactly do you think the problem is? Do you think it is software but only related to a small number of cars? And not related to any type of sensor in those cars? I know you are complaining about it but not sure you have stated what you think the problem is.

I have rebooted the MCU, the IC, and used the power off function in order as described. I have disabled and re-enabled the auto-steer setting. I am not sure where a separate auto-pilot setting would be to turn off and on. None of this has made any difference. I don't think it is a software bug, I think it is faulty hardware. I don't know if the faulty hardware is electronic (i.e. torque sensor, DAS module, steering assist motor) or mechanical (i.e. steering rack, steering linkage at wheels, connections in tilt/telescope steering column).

ETA: I think the audible warning with no visual is a bug, but my escalation request was forwarded to a service center for review, and the service center says there are no problems in the log. However, my response above regarding what I think the problem is involve the false positives and steering issues.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I have rebooted the MCU, the IC, and used the power off function in order as described. I have disabled and re-enabled the auto-steer setting. I am not sure where a separate auto-pilot setting would be to turn off and on. None of this has made any difference. I don't think it is a software bug, I think it is faulty hardware. I don't know if the faulty hardware is electronic (i.e. torque sensor, DAS module, steering assist motor) or mechanical (i.e. steering rack, steering linkage at wheels, connections in tilt/telescope steering column).

Do you have an AP2.5 car? We're seeing similar issues with our AP2.5 car. Our AP2 cars aren't nearly as annoying.

 

[mxnym]

Do you have an AP2.5 car? We're seeing similar issues with our AP2.5 car. Our AP2 cars aren't nearly as annoying.

Yes, my vehicle is AP2.5, but I think that's coincidental. I mean, I don't think they switched vendors for the DAS components specifically for AP2.5, but they may have gotten a bad batch of hardware in spite of not making such a change. Mine is a late August 2017, and I don't think current 2018 models have the issue even though they are still AP2.5.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Yes, my vehicle is AP2.5, but I think that's coincidental. I mean, I don't think they switched vendors for the DAS components specifically for AP2.5, but they may have gotten a bad batch of hardware in spite of not making such a change. Mine is a late August 2017, and I don't think current 2018 models have the issue even though they are still AP2.5.

Ok, thanks for the info. Our AP2.5 S is from 12/2017.

 

[travwill]

Here is a question (as haven't tried it). If you get the autopilot disabled for rest of drive due to being too late responding to the ~3 warnings, does a reboot of MCU and/or IC while driving still reset it?

-T

 

[Joe F]

I have rebooted the MCU, the IC, and used the power off function in order as described. I have disabled and re-enabled the auto-steer setting. I am not sure where a separate auto-pilot setting would be to turn off and on. None of this has made any difference.

Sorry about that all. My bad. I was going by memory from Jan 2016 when AP2 had no AP features turned on, and all we had was standard cruise control. You know, the dark ages. It was just AutoSteer that had an option to enable it, and you had to acknowledge it on a beta disclaimer screen. Not sure why I thought there was also one for all AP features. Late night bourbon brain fart I suppose.

I doubt there are suddenly AP 2.5 H/W defective H/W: More likely different settings need to be adjusted based on the H/W, and they royally screwed it up.

EDIT: From Jan 2017, not 2016.

 

[d21mike]

Ok, thanks for the info. Our AP2.5 S is from 12/2017.

My AP2.5 Car was built Sept. 2017 and there is no problem. Very little torque or resistance required.

Just to clarify the problem again. There is a video around here that the guy is "hands off" and when the warning appears he is just using 1 finger (lightly and instantly) to remove the warning. I.E. Just a little torque to make it go away.

You guys are saying that amount of torque will not work on your car? Meaning you have to apply so much torque that it almost takes you out of AS?

If that is true, I would have the video handy when i go into SC for a test drive and say most people say their car works this way but mine does not. If still not convinced ask them if you can go with them on a test drive of another car to verify it. At some point SC should be convinced there is a problem. If not, I can not see how this problem can be resolved. It appears Tesla does not BELIEVE there is any problem other then people simply do not like the frequency of the warnings.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

My AP2.5 Car was built Sept. 2017 and there is no problem. Very little torque or resistance required.

Just to clarify the problem again. There is a video around here that the guy is "hands off" and when the warning appears he is just using 1 finger (lightly and instantly) to remove the warning. I.E. Just a little torque to make it go away.

You guys are saying that amount of torque will not work on your car? Meaning you have to apply so much torque that it almost takes you out of AS?

I have no problem making the warning go away. The problem is that the warning appears every 20 seconds even though we are already holding the steering wheel.

 

[d21mike]

I have no problem making the warning go away. The problem is that the warning appears every 20 seconds even though we are already holding the steering wheel.

You said the following earlier where your AP2 car does not have as much of a problem. Are you now saying the your AP2 car does not get the warning every 20 seconds and your AP2.5 car does? And you are going the same SPEED (which has a direct impact on frequency)?

If you are saying the torque is the same then my guess is your do not have a problem. From what I have been hearing and maybe I misunderstood is that you have to use more TORQUE on some cars. Can you see the confusion?


Do you have an AP2.5 car? We're seeing similar issues with our AP2.5 car. Our AP2 cars aren't nearly as annoying.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

You said the following earlier where your AP2 car does not have as much of a problem. Are you now saying the your AP2 car does not get the warning every 20 seconds and your AP2.5 car does? And you are going the same SPEED (which has a direct impact on frequency)?

Yes, that's exactly what I have been saying for the past two days. I drove 80 miles in my AP2 car and only had a few warnings. I drove 120 miles in an AP2.5 car and probably had over 200 warnings. The other driver had constant warnings as well and eventually gave up on using autopilot for the rest of the 375 mile drive. I never said that our cars required more torque. I've said multiple times that the AP2.5 car has warnings every 20 seconds, no matter how we hold the steering wheel.

If you are saying the torque is the same then my guess is your do not have a problem. From what I have been hearing and maybe I misunderstood is that you have to use more TORQUE on some cars. Can you see the confusion?

I don't understand how you can say there isn't a problem if one car has very few warnings and another car has hundreds. I never once mentioned using differing levels of torque so I don't understand the confusion.

Here's my original message concerning this:

I did about 80 miles in my AP2 car on Friday night and didn't really have any nags.

I just drove 120 miles in an AP2.5 car and have probably had the Hold steering wheel nag at least 200 times. Very annoying as I'm driving the same way I always do.

 

[aaron0k]

I hate the excuse of hiding behind the branding of “Autopilot”. It’s a brand, a marketing term, that’s all.

I think they really should have made all buyers sign a contract stating that they understood all the limitations and that there would be continuous improvements to it over the life of the vehicle and that the driver would be 100% liable at all times unless otherwise stated. As new versions are released over the air, require you to sign on the screen before autopilot can be activated again while clearly communicating what it can now do and everything it can’t, within reason. Maybe even answer a quick few safety questions regarding it. Maybe then, we wouldn’t all be required to operate at the lowest common denominator of being nagged to hold the wheel every 30 seconds and the media wouldn’t be all over Tesla when something happens.

Tesla just made AP less safe.

Elon has stated that it has been the experienced/complacent drivers that were getting into accidents. Now the experienced/complacent drivers are just going to shove water bottles and oranges into their steering wheel.

Similar to your thought; Tesla should require all drivers to take/pass an online AutoPilot safety training course. From the App, Web or the Center Console.

The course is tied to a Driver Profile and AP can only be activated once the course is complete (or it is speed limited to 35mph). The training should be required/reactivated annually. It's not perfect, there are ways around that too... however it will educate owners and reduce Tesla's liability. It's a compromise between treating owners like adults vs idiots... educating a few idiots might save a life (vs implementing more nags and tempting the idiots to use an Orange).

Example; Ninebot speed limits Segways until the users goes through training to activate higher speeds.