Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Updated autopilot sucks!

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I don 't think that's what he' saying. If holding the wheel == being detected in vehicle 2.0 and holding the wheel =/= being detected in vehicle 2.5, it is only necessary to turn the wheel to clear the warning in the other vehicle, so memory of how hard the wheel had to be turned when nagged in vehicle 2.0 in previous versions will be fleeting at best.
It was my impression he had 2 cars. 1 running 2.5 and the other running 2.0. And two drivers driving both cars on maybe the same day. And both drivers had the same problem. Assuming I understood correctly then I think they should be able to remember when going back and forth between the 2 cars one the same day.
 
Folks: it’s easy. Let’s end this discussion now. Use AP with both hands resting on the bottom of the wheel, gently swinging side to side. I don’t get nags because I do that. How hard is that??

Every now and then, someone jumps in here riding their high horse asking us to put our hands on the wheel, drive safely and everything will be fine. SMH.

I have an AP1 Model S and nagging is not an issue as it's very sensitive to any resistance.
I have an AP2.5 Model X (late 2017) model and nagging has been an issue from Day One. Nothing to do with latest update. The wheels have to be turned almost to the extent of disconnecting AP before the bloody thing realizes hands are on the wheel.

This is clearly some mechanical, calibration or AP hardware issue.

If you don't experience it (like I don't on my Model S), congratulations! This thread is not for you!
 
It was my impression he had 2 cars. 1 running 2.5 and the other running 2.0. And two drivers driving both cars on maybe the same day. And both drivers had the same problem. Assuming I understood correctly then I think they should be able to remember when going back and forth between the 2 cars one the same day.
I'm not sure if you two are discussing me or not but I'll go ahead and chime in.

We have 3 Teslas in the garage. We haven't noticed the nagging issue on the two AP2 cars but are seeing it on the AP2.5 car when driving with a hand (or two) on the wheel. I don't usually drive the AP2.5 car but when I did drive it on Sunday, I drove it exactly as I would've driven my car. We were on a long road trip over the weekend and I helped out with the driving. Both of us experienced the issue in the AP2.5 car. I was amazed at how bad it was because I didn't have the problem in my car on Friday night.

We have opposite work schedules so we haven't been able to test things more thoroughly since Sunday. We should be able to take the cars back out this weekend and do some controlled tests and see if we still see the nags. We plan on trying at least two cars on the same roads, at the same speeds, etc. to see if we can reproduce what we saw last Saturday and Sunday. We have attempted rebooting and powering off. Rebooting didn't make any difference but I don't know if powering off helped at all since I haven't driven that car since we tried that step.
 
  • Informative
  • Like
Reactions: dogldogl and rw99
I'm not sure if you two are discussing me or not but I'll go ahead and chime in.

We have 3 Teslas in the garage. We haven't noticed the nagging issue on the two AP2 cars but are seeing it on the AP2.5 car when driving with a hand (or two) on the wheel. I don't usually drive the AP2.5 car but when I did drive it on Sunday, I drove it exactly as I would've driven my car. We were on a long road trip over the weekend and I helped out with the driving. Both of us experienced the issue in the AP2.5 car. I was amazed at how bad it was because I didn't have the problem in my car on Friday night.

We have opposite work schedules so we haven't been able to test things more thoroughly since Sunday. We should be able to take the cars back out this weekend and do some controlled tests and see if we still see the nags. We plan on trying at least two cars on the same roads, at the same speeds, etc. to see if we can reproduce what we saw last Saturday and Sunday. We have attempted rebooting and powering off. Rebooting didn't make any difference but I don't know if powering off helped at all since I haven't driven that car since we tried that step.
Thanks. It is you I was talking about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MelaniainLA
My December 2016 AP2 car gets nags all the time while holding the steering wheel.
And my Dec 2016 delivered S does not get nags, unless I'm not paying attention to holding the wheel except for barely touching it. Forcing a nag by releasing the wheel, all that's required is barely touching the outer spoke at the 3 or 9 o'clock position with a single finger. I think I could do it with a pretzel rod without breaking it, if that's any indication how little force it takes.

Something's very wrong that the steering effort between like models, tires, inflation etc is drastically different. Alignment issues stated upthread easily tested on a flat (little crown, given wide tires will cause pulling) and seeing how the car tracks without AS or hands on the wheel.

We need to come up with a testing method to gauge the force (weight?) required to cancel the nag. Was thinking of suspending a plastic Dixi cup from the wheel and increasing quarters ($.25 cents) dropped into it to find how much it takes. Perhaps the most consistent test between cars, as anything else is too subjective.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MIT_S60
To those arguing that Tesla was not selling this car as a self driving car, you are correct. That being said, I think they WERE selling it as hands free driving. As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm still waiting to hear a story of a Tesla employee telling a customer to keep their hands on the wheel during a test drive.
 
luv u man.....

.... yeah, still need gas car to drive Colorado mountains - got stuck in Castle Butte on a 20 am public charger for 20 hours to be able to get the Tesla Silverthorne super charger and the drive through Leadville is a battery drainer. Nav system said I was negative miles to make it to Silverthorne before I started the descent down to HW70... Yikes ....

and to qualify my volvo no nag comment.. it is way less naggy than the tesla... not nag free... A much lighter touch on the wheel was detected versus the now-required-steering-wheel-jiggle .......
 
  • Informative
Reactions: MIT_S60
luv u man.....

.... yeah, still need gas car to drive Colorado mountains - got stuck in Castle Butte on a 20 am public charger for 20 hours to be able to get the Tesla Silverthorne super charger and the drive through Leadville is a battery drainer. Nav system said I was negative miles to make it to Silverthorne before I started the descent down to HW70... Yikes ....

and to qualify my volvo no nag comment.. it is way less naggy than the tesla... not nag free... A much lighter touch on the wheel was detected versus the now-required-steering-wheel-jiggle .......
Thanks for your correction about Volvo also NAGS. I think it is important to hear about other advances in the industry to compare to Tesla. Hopefully Tesla is listening. But I recommend that you do not exaggerate one side or the other because you start to loose credibility.

Regarding your comment above. MY Tesla definitely does not "now-required-steering-wheel-jiggle". Very slight resistance/torque is all that is required. Similar to what I saw in the Volvo Video I posted. Maybe a small percentage of Tesla's have an issue so if necessary you could state that a few have and an issue and needs to do this or that.

Lastly your statement about the Volvo "much lighter touch". It appears in the video I posted it needs some steering (movement of the steering wheel) instead of a touch. Even the message says so. Are you saying there are sensors in the steering wheel? I do not have the car and have no idea.
 
What do you guys have your steering mode set to? I wonder if the setting might affect the level of effort with the detection. I have mine set to Comfort (lowest setting) and it barely takes any force for it to detect. Maybe with a stiffer (Sport) mode setting, it takes more force?
 
What do you guys have your steering mode set to? I wonder if the setting might affect the level of effort with the detection. I have mine set to Comfort (lowest setting) and it barely takes any force for it to detect. Maybe with a stiffer (Sport) mode setting, it takes more force?

Hmmm, that's interesting. Mine was set to the hardest I think because we like sport type steering. And yeah it is not easy for the white flashes to go away. But I don't us changing the setting as my wife does not use AP and she likes the current steering setting.
 
What do you guys have your steering mode set to? I wonder if the setting might affect the level of effort with the detection. I have mine set to Comfort (lowest setting) and it barely takes any force for it to detect. Maybe with a stiffer (Sport) mode setting, it takes more force?
Mine is Standard (the middle one) and very little torque needed. Model S 75D Sept.. 2017 Build AP2.5.
 
What do you guys have your steering mode set to? I wonder if the setting might affect the level of effort with the detection. I have mine set to Comfort (lowest setting) and it barely takes any force for it to detect. Maybe with a stiffer (Sport) mode setting, it takes more force?
Since you asked twice, and because you might not have seen my comment in my wall of text, I use comfort, but my steering is still very stiff compared to loaners also in comfort, and it takes a significant amount of force to clear the nags and an even more significant amount of force to cancel auto steer using the steering wheel.
 
I’m pretty disappointed in the new nag update. I drive with my hands in the wheel in the 5 and 8 position when AP is on and now it’s nagging every 20 seconds. I am not that light of a touch on the steering wheel, but on the highway, it wheel rarely turns (straight roads) so little opportunity for torque.

Either they need to make the software detection threshold lower, have a Tesla Ranger be able to adjust the steering wheels, or increase the nag interval.

On a 6 hour trip this week I ended up turning it off. It’s a big enough deal that despite owning two Tesla’s I won’t be getting a third unless it’s resolved. I don’t appreciate having my UX intentionally decreased after purchase.
 
Thanks for your correction about Volvo also NAGS. I think it is important to hear about other advances in the industry to compare to Tesla. Hopefully Tesla is listening. But I recommend that you do not exaggerate one side or the other because you start to loose credibility.

Regarding your comment above. MY Tesla definitely does not "now-required-steering-wheel-jiggle". Very slight resistance/torque is all that is required. Similar to what I saw in the Volvo Video I posted. Maybe a small percentage of Tesla's have an issue so if necessary you could state that a few have and an issue and needs to do this or that.

Lastly your statement about the Volvo "much lighter touch". It appears in the video I posted it needs some steering (movement of the steering wheel) instead of a touch. Even the message says so. Are you saying there are sensors in the steering wheel? I do not have the car and have no idea.

I've personally tested the latest Volvo Pilot Assist on an XC90 (while I was deciding between that and the Model X) and I can confidently say it's not in the same league to Tesla AP in steering accuracy. At full motorway speeds it's barely capable of following a simple bend that the Tesla handles with ease. As for nags, I found it required a light steering input similar to my Tesla Model X. But it sounds like there is a lot of variation between individual cars for whatever reason. Mine only requires a very subtle input to cancel any nagging, so it's never been an issue for me. I appreciate that isn't the case for some.

But I wish Tesla would move over to steering wheel touch sensors instead of relying on a torque input for driver hand detection. That would be much more reliable and not require counter-steering etc to prevent nags when travelling in a straight line.
 
Just had a software update and let me say, this new auto pilot sucks!!!!!

The hands on wheel warning pops up every 20 seconds when in cruise control.

It’s annoying as I need to literally put pressure against the wheel with my hand so it really defeats autopilot. To keep it from coming on every 20 seconds.

Also these warnings are creating an increased distraction from watching the road as I need to take my eyes off the road.

I can no longer recommend autopilot to any referrals.

Let’s just call it driver assist now since this is no longer remotely close to autopilot.

I understand tesla is trying to cover their butt with these recent fatalities but I don’t agree with this new update.

I've been seeing this idea being referred to elsewhere, but haven't known what it was from.

My suggestion and experience - the new nag system is no different than the old nag system, at least fo rme and how I use autopilot.


The key is to realize that the system is looking for a twist or torque on the steering wheel as the indicator that you are present and attentive. So hands off the steering wheel, or resting your hand(s) in your lap with a light touch on the wheel will not provide that resistance (or anything at all on a straight away), and the nag will go off regularly (whether 20s, 1 mile, or some other period).

The key is to keep one hand on the wheel (as the system tells you to do anyway) by resting one hand on the steering wheel cross piece (so 3 or 9 o'clock on the wheel, rather than 6). For me, I rest my left elbow on the driver's door armrest, and my left hand has a finger hooked over the left side of the steering wheel at 9 o'clock. I adjust the steering wheel, and the driver's seat up/down, forward/backward, to find a combination that makes this comfortable (I'm also blessed with long arms that makes that easier for me).

With this method, the flashing white "hands on the wheel" nag didn't come up before the recent patch, and it doesnt come up after the recent patch. I regularly make a 90 minute drive between houses and autopilot is a godsend for that - the new AP behavior is just as good as the previous version (and I like the car silhouettes in neighboring lanes - I hope that's a precursor to signalling lane changes on 4 lane country highways, such as the one I am mostly driving on :)).

The weight of hand plus arm resting on the wheel is enough to provide the torque that says "I'm here", while being less than the torque needed to break out of lane keeping. And that makes it easy for me to drive more strategically - watching the road and cars ahead and trying to spot possible problems before they develop.


The AP system as currently constituted and delivered, is not a self driving / autonomous system. We, the drivers, are expected to remain fully engaged at all times. The system is designed to create and reinforce this expectation by testing for feedback from the wheel on a continuous basis, to test for our presence.
 
Since you asked twice, and because you might not have seen my comment in my wall of text, I use comfort, but my steering is still very stiff compared to loaners also in comfort, and it takes a significant amount of force to clear the nags and an even more significant amount of force to cancel auto steer using the steering wheel.

I have been tempted to rig up something to test how much force it requires to disengage my wheel when on AP. Then I could test the difference between our AP1 car and my 3 and see how much larger the force is on my 3. I figure if I showed up at the service center with a (presumably high) number and asked if that was within specs, they would have a harder time dismissing the issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rhumbliner
I have been tempted to rig up something to test how much force it requires to disengage my wheel when on AP. Then I could test the difference between our AP1 car and my 3 and see how much larger the force is on my 3. I figure if I showed up at the service center with a (presumably high) number and asked if that was within specs, they would have a harder time dismissing the issue.
Luggage scale? Might not be sensitive enough though. I was thinking weight, measured with quarters in a plastic cup, hanging from the spoke might be enough. For comparison, everyone has them. :)
 
  • Funny
Reactions: MIT_S60
I still haven't updated. But it's getting very annoying having to dismiss the "software update available" that pops up every time the car is shifted from Park into either Reverse or Drive.

Actually the fact that this popup appears when shifting into Reverse seems like a safety hazard to me, because it blocks the view of the rear camera. There shouldn't be ANYTHING that is allowed to block the view of the rear camera when the car is in reverse.