It allows the cars to be used in areas that Tesla can't/doesn't want to support. They have stated that the Supercharger network is not priced to be an income/profit stream, so it would be more why wouldn't Tesla want to create the adapters to reduce the demand on their network and reduce their costs?
[Updated] Model 3 CCS / CHAdeMO adapter
- Thread starter cbutters
- Start date
It allows the cars to be used in areas that Tesla can't/doesn't want to support. They have stated that the Supercharger network is not priced to be an income/profit stream, so it would be more why wouldn't Tesla want to create the adapters to reduce the demand on their network and reduce their costs?
How would that work. So you are 400 mikes from home and need to charge. You can’t charge at a Supercharger because, you know, there are none in that area but there are lots of Chademo/CCS stations in that area. This is the growing reality of BC residents as our CCS/Chademo network spreads to more and more remote parts of the province. 50 more coming this year in addition to the 80 we have already.
Ummm, sell more cars? Being locked into a proprietary charging network is not a good selling point. The Supercharger network is an awesome charging network but covers less than half the area of Chademo/CCS and we’ll soon be a quarter of the area as the Chademo/CCS buildout towards the north and the central coast is completed.
I really wish we had Chademo for track usage. A 3rd party could purchase and install a medium power charger (~50 kW) and sell it to racers for, say, $.75/kWh. Sure that means you pay almost $1 per minute of racing time in charge (15-20 minute session = ~25 kwh), but some tracks are totally inaccessible to a Model 3 currently because of the lack of nearby Superchargers.
50 kW is plenty to refill in between track sessions, you'd top up the 25 kwh in 30-45 minutes and sessions are normally at least an hour apart.
There is definitely a business case to pay off the charger in under 10 years, depending on demand and electricity rates.
50 kW is plenty to refill in between track sessions, you'd top up the 25 kwh in 30-45 minutes and sessions are normally at least an hour apart.
There is definitely a business case to pay off the charger in under 10 years, depending on demand and electricity rates.
NerdUno
Member
What have you been smokin'? Tesla said the same thing about service. Have you compared Tesla pricing to local utility rates lately? HINT: Prices went up considerably. It's more than doubled local electric rates and, in many cases, roughly the same cost per mile as gasoline for a gas guzzler. Time for the sheep to wake up.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Can you cite where SC rates are "more than double" local commercial with demand pricing included rates?
Or where they're comparable to gas guzzlers? (which are legally defined as cars getting EPA combined mileage of less than 12.5 mpg)?
The hardware and electrical are capital costs, in some cases the pad has to be poured, and then there’s maintenance. It’s more than just grid cost.
NerdUno
Member
Not sure why you can't do your own research, but here goes. True to form, Tesla doesn't publish their rates other than an "average" U.S. rate of $ 0.28 per kWh. You can probably guess why. Check your vehicle's maps for the cost at individual superchargers. That average rate is roughly triple the kWh cost of electricity in the 10 lowest cost states. You can take it from there if you are actually interested in the facts.
NerdUno
Member
My expectation is that Tesla will honor their representations that superchargers and service centers are not "profit centers," and that doesn't mean dipping into the proceeds to cover future construction costs of additional superchargers and service centers. I think we all fully appreciate the games that so-called non-profits play while calling themselves non-profits. Elon appears to be using the same accounting tricks.
You seem to not understand how a non-profit works. It's not a "lose-money" company, it's a "non-profit" company. Tesla needs to pay for the capital costs of the chargers somehow, if they charge the going rate for electricity they will NEVER pay off the supercharger...
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Not to mention his own source disproves his original claim that SCs now cost as much as "gas guzzlers"
If national SC average is 28 cents per kwh a full charge of a model 3 (310 miles) costs $21.
A gas guzzlers (subject to the tax of the same name) is defined as a vehicle getting less than 12.5 mpg combined under EPA testing.
Let's use exactly 12.5 mpg though to be as generous as possible to his claim.
So 310 miles would require 24.8 gallons of gasoline.
Average gasoline price in the US right now is $2.273 per AAA.
That's $56.37 to drive the same distance the Model 3 will go with $21 of supercharging.
Not only is the Tesla cheaper, it's almost 3 times cheaper.
(and this ignores the fact most EVs will be using much cheaper home charging for anything other than road trips- and the fact many gas guzzlers require premium fuel which costs significantly more)
Plus taxes plus leases plus replacing the power cables when some four eyed banjo pickin truck drivin numpty vandalized the site.
Rates should always be a third or more higher than what you could charge at home for.
Just sayin.
lookmtb
Member
Please correct me if I'm wrong (I don't want to spread misinformation), but doesn't the CCS standard prohibit the use of adapters? I've read and heard this, but I've never dug into the documentation myself.
MorrisonHiker
S 100D 2021.4.12
Many people have repeated that rumor but none have ever produced any documentation. Tesla has already announced a CCS adapter for the Model S and X in Europe, so that would imply adapters are allowed.
I don't know why the 3rd party charging networks are not putting Tesla connectors on their chargers. They would open their chargers up to many more potential customers with less hassle. I'm sure Tesla would not make it hard to license the cable. It gives Tesla customers more options, making Tesla's more attractive. I can see why electrify america does not (paid for by VW), but the others should put in Tesla cables for their high speed chargers.
Eno Deb
Active Member
Electrify America is not allowed to install proprietary chargers (this is part of the requirements coming out of the Dieselgate settlement), so they can't even if they wanted to. Generally, it's highly unlikely that anybody else will support Tesla's connector.
It isn't as simple as putting the right cable/connector on. You would have to support the Tesla Supercharging protocol, and I'm not sure Tesla wants to share that.
I think at least one charging provider in the EU took a Tesla CHAdeMO adapter and integrated it into their DC fast charger station. But that wouldn't help a Model 3 since it doesn't currently support the CHAdeMO adapter.
The CHAdeMO adapter is really required for Model 3s sold in Japan, and is almost required in Canada. (Though a CCS adapter in Canada would work OK too.)
What I would really like to see a "universal" adapter created by Tesla. Maybe the adapter itself would be Type 1 CCS to US Tesla, but you could stack an additional adapter on it to convert the CHAdeMO connector to the Type 1 CCS connector. That way you wouldn't need two large bulky adapters. (Just one large bulky adapter and one adapter.) Of course maybe that really isn't necessary. Maybe CCS alone is enough in the US. (Since the majority of new sites are primarily CCS.)
Well they can if they want to, they just can't claim that portion of the expense as going towards their settlement agreement.
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