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Updated Model 3 Charging Profiles & Durations

Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,200
4,140
SoCal
Ingineer discovered that the cable between the charge port and the battery was a 3-0 cable and was bigger than model S. It's in one of his videos. He claimed to have the mfg's specs on that cable and said it was good for 430 amps but I'm not sure if that's a continuous rating or not. Most conventional copper 3-0 cable are only good for low 300 amp range so 430 seemed pretty racey at the time.

Now we have people saying that tesla could be pushing anywhere from low 600 to 700 amps thru that cable.

What do you think about that??
Jack Rickard shows both cables next to each other in this video at about 1:16:00. (I recommend 1.5x speed, more if you hail from New England.)

https://youtu.be/bLKKSh7K2AU?t=4593

He claims they are 20mm dia cable rated for about 535A. However, he also says the duration is 5-10 minutes for the peak amperage but my modeling shows that the actual duration above 200kW is only about 3.5 minutes and that's when starting at 0% SOC (usable). So it's far from a continuous load at the car side. I do expect the Supercharger side is speced for much more than the Model 3 LR can pull from it.

Any thoughts on potential voltage changes to the pack that would lower the current needed to achieve 250kW+?
For example, at 700V you would “only” need 357A, which would be within cable specs.
That might necessitate a re-wiring of the pack though, which I’m not sure can be done on the fly for he entire M3 fleet..
I thought I'd seen that the V3 spec out at 500V. It appears Tesla is staying at 400V packs and not venturing to 800V as VW Group is with the Taycan and e-tron GT. It looks like the Megachargers are going to be 4 parallel 400V cables into the Semi and will keep everything 400V.
 

Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,200
4,140
SoCal
Here are some new graphs that put all the configurations together. The charging models are only slightly changed. I'm warming up to the "mi/hr" charge rate that Tesla uses and included that as the third graph. It's basically the first derivative of the second graph and shows how long the peak power is actually put into the car.

BTW, I'm not exactly sure when, but Tesla changed the screen indication during Supercharging to show instantaneous mi/hr, instead of session average mi/hr.

20190310, Mod3 Profiles.png
20190310, Mod3 Chg Durations.png
20190310, Mod3 Chg Rate.png
 
  • Informative
Reactions: David L
Jan 22, 2016
176
110
Tonto Basin, Az
Jack Rickard shows both cables next to each other in this video at about 1:16:00. (I recommend 1.5x speed, more if you hail from New England.)

https://youtu.be/bLKKSh7K2AU?t=4593

He claims they are 20mm dia cable rated for about 535A.

Thx for the link. I like Jack's stuff.

It seems pretty clear now that the cable from the charge port to the battery may be good for somewhere in the 600-700 amp range but only for a limited time.

Please explain the New England comment:)
 
Jan 22, 2016
176
110
Tonto Basin, Az
No. I was originally thinking the peak amperage might be ~750A using some simplistic assumptions, but it's probably lower, around 620A, based on a reddit conversation. I'd appreciate any additional insight on this.

We need someone with an instrumented M3 so we can get a shot of Voltage and current during the charge on a v3 charger.
Looks like you own one. You should install the dongle and apps req'd to pull the data!!
 

Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,200
4,140
SoCal
SR and SR+ are same pack. 3 packs for M3 (SR/SR+, MR, LR), each will have its own 1PH or 3PH variant for international.
Sounds like pack manufacturing will simplify with the removal of the MR option.

I’m curious to see if there are any manufacturing changes with the new modules that will be noticeable to customers. Other than making them lighter, gettig rid of the oil canning noises during charging would be nice to see.
 

GigaGrunt

Member
Oct 1, 2018
240
547
Nevada
Sounds like pack manufacturing will simplify with the removal of the MR option.

I’m curious to see if there are any manufacturing changes with the new modules that will be noticeable to customers. Other than making them lighter, gettig rid of the oil canning noises during charging would be nice to see.

New modules (not depopulated) aren’t shipping yet. New springs for front suspension due to weight balance is really the only change.
 

Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,200
4,140
SoCal
New modules (not depopulated) aren’t shipping yet. New springs for front suspension due to weight balance is really the only change.
This brings up an engineering trade I hadn't previously considered. There are a number of constraints when designing the new modules but they could have considered adjusting the cell fore-aft position to optimize vehicle weight distribution, presumably to 50/50. If the SR/SR+ cars with the new modules have equal weight on the front and rear axles (with driver), I would infer that there are no plans for an AWD variant with the SR battery (on either 3 or Y). But if the SR cars are rear biased, that leaves open the possibility for the release of dual motor cars which would move the distribution forward.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: 2virgule5

Zoomit

Active Member
Sep 1, 2015
2,200
4,140
SoCal
2019.8.5 brought a new curve on SC V2, it is not too far off from the preliminary estimates provided in the graph above: 2019.8.5 speeds up super charging

Full speed 120 kWh is now held to 52% before it starts to go down. It appears to go down at a slower rate too.
As stated in the other thread, your data appears consistent with previous Supercharging data and therefore doesn't indicate 2019.8.5 included a new charging profile.
 
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Reactions: ord3r

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