Upgraded from HW1 to HW2 my thoughts

[ichospitalist]

So I made the leap from HW1 90D to HW2 90D by trading in my 2016 blue 90D which was a floor model to begin woth to a white 2016 90D also a floor model (tried to sell blue here but no takers). Thankfully the upgrade only costed me about 12K and kept all the features I wanted. Happy about the car but getting patient about the promised features of autopilot 2. Having driven autopilot 1 I can say that autopilot 2 still sucks compared to 1 and I've driven for 2 months now on autopilot 2. I still haven't gotten the update to allow AEB. So far
-autopilot 1 identifies lanes in a more stable way than 2. Lanes look shaky and jittery on autopilot 2 cluster panel
-when can autopilot 2 identify cars, trucks and motorcycles? Autopilot 1 does this beautifully. Shouldn't the number of cameras be able to distinguish that by now? Motorcycles and pedestrians are still invisible to autopilot 2.
-still no autowiper and autobeam/dim. These were very handy on autopilot 1 and I feel like driving a downgraded one
-there is excessive braking at times with autopilot 2 because it seems to sometimes identify the car on the next lane as on my lane, explaining the jitteriness of the cluster. So far it hasn't been a huge deal because I haven't experienced a full stop, but it seems autopilot 2 is more confused about who is on front esp on turns.
-for some odd reason there is more of a lag with the computer than HW1.

The only good things I've found which doesn't really make any advantage yet over HW1

-on smaller tighter streets HW2 can sometimes make out a lane vs HW1
-the map is smoother on loading and moving, expected since it's more powerful

Been two months and i feel like I've downgraded rather than upgraded. I hope feature parity comes soon. Beginning to regret upgrading for Tesla.

 

[whitex]

Did you not drive the AP2 car before upgrading? Did you not read this forum? Btw, map loading should be the same, there was no change of the big screen computer AFAIK (we also have both AP1 and AP2 cars, no difference in responsiveness of the screen, unless your AP1 maybe was 3G - I had our AP1 upgraded to LTE last year).

 

[Tam]

...soon...

People paid AP1 in 10/2014 and they didn't get their autopilot until 10/2015.

AP2 was announced in 10/19/2016, you should give it until 10/2017 and see whether you should curse it by then

 

[Bladerskb]

going on 8 months now and yet they can't catch up.

 

[Tam]

...going on 8 months now....

Date/ Months

10/19/2016 #0
11/19/2016 #1
12/19/2016 #2
01/19/2017 #3
02/19/2017 #4
03/19/2017 #5
04/19/2017 #6

 

[xyeahtony]

People paid AP1 in 10/2014 and they didn't get their autopilot until 10/2015.

AP2 was announced in 10/2016, you should give it until 10/2017 and see whether you should curse it by then

Exactly!

People are still stuck in the old car buying mentality. What you buy is what you get for the life of the car. That system doesn't apply to Teslas and people are still getting used to it.

 

[Bladerskb]

Date/ Months

10/19/2016 #0
11/19/2016 #1
12/19/2016 #2
01/19/2017 #3
02/19/2017 #4
03/19/2017 #5
04/19/2017 #6

AP2 development started well before that announcement. You would be naive to believe otherwise.

Infact both the hardware and software development started early in the year with Tesla working with Nvidia to get the chip production ready and into their cars and also tesla vision which Mobileye found out about and Tesla had to disclose during the summer which lead to the break up.

AP2 cars also went into FULL production a month before that anouncement.
AP2 development went FULL TIME right after the 8.0 update (9/11/2016). Putting us at exactly 8 months timeline

Upgrading Autopilot: Seeing the World in Radar

 

[Tam]

...9/11/2016...

September 2016 is about how to fix the problem of fatal AP1 Florida accident.

How you use the same radar and how to improve that very same radar.

It was about AP1, not Nvidia.

To gauge a timeline, there should be some guidelines like announcement date, production date.

Otherwise, you can say that AP1 started since 9/18/2013 and its autopilot was not released until 2 years later.

Anyhow, things are progressing very fast:

10/19/2016 AP2 announcement, car production.
12/31/2016 First 1,000 owners with 35 mph Autosteer, Forward Collision Warning,
01/21/2017 Autosteer @ 45 mph
02/02/2017 Autosteer @ 50 mph
02/28/2017 Parallell Autopark
03/8/2017 Autosteer @ 55 mph
03/28/2017 Autosteer @ 80 mph, Summon, AutoLane change, Voice navigation improvements
04/26/2017 28mph AEB

 

[alloverx]

So the Mobileye fallout was due to Tesla not planning to use them in their next version? I thought I read it was due to them wanting to use Mobileye in a way it was not designed for. Anyway bold move from Tesla and they are still paying for it, or rather the AP2 customer s are

 

[Tam]

...AP2 customer s are...

One of the reasons to ditch MobilEye is:

MobilEye is an inferior product which would require incremental car trade-ins to get your latest MobilEye Chip.

By divorcing MobilEye, customers now only need to pay ONCE for AP2 and do not have to trade-in their cars to advance from plain manual driving in 10/2016 all the way to fancy autonomous level in future (may be 2019).

To make more money for each incremental chip updates, Tesla should stay with MobilEye but it's at an expense of slow progress.

To progress quickly to autonomous level without making incremental profits from customers, part with MobilEye business model.

 

[Bladerskb]

September 2016 is about how to fix the problem of fatal AP1 Florida accident.

How you use the same radar and how to improve that very same radar.

It was about AP1, not Nvidia.

To gauge a timeline, there should be some guidelines like announcement date, production date.

Otherwise, you can say that AP1 started since 9/18/2013 and its autopilot was not released until 2 years later.

What in the world are you talking about? AP1 8.0 update was released the first week of September.
Software engineers don't get their assignments from freaking PR announcement, press conferences and elon's twitter.
They didn't wake up one morning and say oh *sugar* we are using NVidia and 8 cameras and creating our own tesla vision.
That work started FULL time after ap1 version 8. As that was the last AP1 version update released.
They didn't chill for a full month waiting and then began working on ap2 the day of the announcement.
That notion is completely absurd.

 

[number12]

People paid AP1 in 10/2014 and they didn't get their autopilot until 10/2015.

AP2 was announced in 10/19/2016, you should give it until 10/2017 and see whether you should curse it by then

Worst argument I have ever heard.

Is AP2 completely starting over? Is 2017 Tech time lines the same as 2014 (even if it was completely starting over)? Come on. Make an arguement other than they took a long time before so it's ok now.

 

[number12]

By divorcing MobilEye, customers now only need to pay ONCE for AP2 and do not have to trade-in their cars to advance from plain manual driving in 10/2016 all the way to fancy autonomous level in future (may be 2019).

To make more money for each incremental chip updates, Tesla should stay with MobilEye but it's at an expense of slow progress.

To progress quickly to autonomous level without making incremental profits from customers, part with MobilEye business model.

Never mind.. this is your worst argument. "Pay once" and Tesla should not be in the same sentence. I feel the urge to trade in my car monthly for this or that. (Ie buying a AP1 in Sept 16, etc)

 

[Tam]

Is AP2 completely starting over?

In Autopilot function, yes, it is a complete starting over. When you first bought AP2 prior to 12/31/2016, your car had no cruise, no autosteer, no TACC... It's practically zero in the world of Autopilot.

...Make an arguement other than they took a long time before so it's ok now

It's just like people was asking when they would get their Model X after the initial production start, you can guess or you can look at the history of Model S initial production start and estimate the rate.

Just because it was a slow ramp up for the S, that doesn't mean it's an excuse for a slow ramp up for the X.

We need to look at history and make a best guess for future.

..."Pay once" and Tesla should not be in the same sentence...

We are talking in the context of how many times do you need to pay for incremental hardware trade-ins in order to get to Autonomous capability.

AP1 was never promised to be able to be software updated to Autonomous capability. You have to buy a new Tesla with a different hardware suite if you wanted Autonomous capability.

AP2 on the other hand is promised to get you to Autonomous capability in future with subsequent incremental firmware updates for no additional costs.

That what to pay ONCE means in the very narrow context of promised Autonomous capability.

On the other hand, I agree with you for a tech gadget Tesla, "pay once" should not be in the same sentence because of some other reasons: People who didn't pay for 60 kWh but later on, paid more to upgrade from 40 kWh to 60 kWh. People who initially didn't want to pay for navigation had to trade in their car for navigation (it later became standard afterward)...

Autonomous are not created equal: current promise is "probability of safety at least twice as good as the average human driver."

It may take additional cost of additional hardware to improve more than that such as LIDAR in future.

But if you just want to stick to the 10/19/2016 promised Autonomous capability, you only need to pay ONCE.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Exactly!

People are still stuck in the old car buying mentality. What you buy is what you get for the life of the car. That system doesn't apply to Teslas and people are still getting used to it.

Perhaps because Tesla told us things like AEB "will" be out in December 2016.

And the EAP that was expected to come out in December 2016 was like this. That text just maybe, maybe was a bit... misleading?

 

[tezzla]

This is what I see:

I would/could NEVER call that a promise!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

This is what I see:

View attachment 225042

I would/could NEVER call that a promise!

Who said promise?

I said Tesla communicated in a way that likely created a misleading expectation.

Read that EAP description Tesla sold cars on, expectation of December 2016 release and think about what is a reasonable interpretation. Was a reasonable interpretation of Tesla's four camera, auto lane changing Dec 2016 expected EAP instead "nowhere near anything like that still in May 2017"?

I mean a reasonable interpretation where the reader in October 2016 would not be expected to assume Tesla lied.

On AEB and some other auto features Tesla by the way actually said they will be out in December 2016. This was on tesla.com. Some of those are still not out today.

 

[Bladerskb]

This is what I see:

View attachment 225042

I would/could NEVER call that a promise!

what do you see here

 

[AnxietyRanger]

what do you see here

That is not a promise... a will is a testament and nobody died!

 

[Snowstorm]

I had an AP2 for a few days earlier this month before it had to go in to service and I as given an AP1 loaner.
My initial impression on AP2 was positive. It was amazing to see that a car can steer and accelerate on its own. It isn't perfect, and is not something I trusted, but a cool novelty. When I got my AP1 loaner, I was blown away by how solid it is. I use and rely on it every day on highways right now.

AP2 -> watching a toddler walk "Wow, way to go little boy! Please be careful"
AP1 -> (not) watching a teenager walk to school "stuff can still happen, but no need to really think or worry about it"

I really hope parity will come soon as I am pretty spoiled by AP1 now. Please continue with the updates, even if incremental. It gives us hope.