Upgraded to FSD, now what?

[focher]

I got my car December 2018 with EAP and paid for FSD in March of 2019 during that $2000 sale. I have yet to be contacted by anyone to retrofit to HW3. I guess I'm not in a rush.

I'm the East Bay and originally tried to schedule through the app's Service Appointment. It was cancelled with the message that the computer wasn't available and that I will be contacted. Having experienced that message before with my September 2018 Performance and never getting my spoiler until I kept requesting it, I just kept trying.

Finally, I tried booking with the Berkeley Service Center and one of the advisors seemed to take it to task to get it done. He ordered the computer but it took a couple of weeks. Had it done last Thursday (plus the charger pin replacements).

I recommend to just keep booking a service appointment and letting them cancel it. Based on history, it's very unlikely you will be proactively contacted. Being in the Bay Area probably helps.

 

[Skunis]

I have tried to book twice with my SC in NJ and both times they tell me they do not have any HW3 in stock. I find it hard to believe they cannot order for a customer. I know Tesla is unlike any other car manufacturer but I cannot believe there are no HW3 computers to be ordered.

 

[Sandiegodoug]

I was asked to bring in for charger pins. Mine is a 1/18 LR RWD. They installed hw3 during pin replacement. Funny, I didn’t ask for hw3, they just scheduled since I purchased. I asked about our 6/17 x and they are not doing updates yet.

 

[Garlan Garner]

There are folks that bought FSD on cars several years ago with nothing to show for it. Some folks don't even have those cars anymore, so they paid for something they never got. So I'm not holding my breath. I got it "on sale" and at the time, it was like instead of paying $4000 for nothing I paid $2000 for nothing. I saved a whole $2000 on nothing!

The way I rationalized it was I paid for Tesla to owe me the update from HW 2.5 as a bit of future-proofing. But since 3.0 still isn't isn't really doing much more than 2.5, I'm not in a rush. I theory, the hardware will be better the longer I wait.

Wrt actual FSD capabilities (not what they've recently relabled at FSD), I'll be patient and keep my expectations low.

If you purchased FSD and then sold the car without having FSD in mind.....then that was a horrible mistake.

You can ALWAYS get something for FSD.

As a matter of fact: I was involved in an accident a while back and the ONLY reason they didn't total my car is because FSD put me over the top of the value of a Total loss estimate.

The value of FSD saved my car from being totaled.

 

[TX_M3P+]

I was asked to bring in for charger pins. Mine is a 1/18 LR RWD. They installed hw3 during pin replacement. Funny, I didn’t ask for hw3, they just scheduled since I purchased. I asked about our 6/17 x and they are not doing updates yet.

I had Tesla service out to fix and issue with my driver side window, and while they were here they replace the charge pins too. Now I have a service appointment set for 5/11 to replace my rear spoiler, so I wonder if they will do the HW3 upgrade at that time? I guess I'll have to wait and see. I cannot currently schedule a 2nd appointment through the app and when I try to edit my current appointment it looks like it wants to replace the spoiler service for the HW install service, which I don't want to do either. It won't let me add an addition item to the currently schedule service, which is weird, because I was able to do that in the past, but there was a recent app update so maybe they changed that.

 

[hugh_jassol]

Yeah- pre-March-2019 FSDs promise was basically just a paragraph describing behavior that'd line up with at least L4 self driving.

March 2019 it was changed (for ANYONE buying it at that point forward) to just be a specific list of features- none promised at better than L2- and all but 2 of which already existed (and used to be part of EAP which was no longer sold at that point)- the 2 not delivered ones were stoplight/stopsign stopping that's in very beta release today.... and "automatic driving on city streets"

A week or two ago they updated it a second time- to move the stopsign/light thing into the delivered section... and to rename (arguably downgrage) the one undelivered feature to be "autosteer" on city streets.

Interesting... I bought FSD for my 2018 EAP car on 2/28/19...

Do you think they will actually honor the "without driver input" or even the "automatic driving on city streets"? for pre-3/2019 purchasers? I'm guessing not.

 

[Knightshade]

Interesting... I bought FSD for my 2018 EAP car on 2/28/19...

Do you think they will actually honor the "without driver input" or even the "automatic driving on city streets"? for pre-3/2019 purchasers? I'm guessing not.

I'm guessing they will either

1) Deliver that (least likely IMHO)

2) Admit they can't and refund FSD money (all or part- if only part then same as 3)

3) Get sued for taking money for something they never delivered and admit they can't/won't ever deliver


Personally I think the pre-March-19 folks get ~$3000 refunds, the wording change means only those who paid the least for it get refunds....and insures the majority of buyers (who by volume of sales will be post march 19) don't.

 

[TX_M3P+]

...the 2 not delivered ones were stoplight/stopsign stopping that's in very beta release today.... and "automatic driving on city streets"

A week or two ago they updated it a second time- to move the stopsign/light thing into the delivered section... and to rename (arguably downgrage) the one undelivered feature to be "autosteer" on city streets.

Interesting. But don't we already have autosteer on city streets today? I know AP is currently only meant to be used on the highway, but technically it does work on city streets, minus the ability to turn right or left at an intersection. Couldn't one assume that "autosteer on city streets" means AP functionality on city streets with the ability to make right or left turns at intersections? In Elon's recent quarterly review meeting he indicated that right and left city street turning was the next big piece for FSD. I think once they get the light/sign stopping down, then the only thing left to add would be intersection turning, then the car would be FSD. Just my thoughts.

 

[cucubits]

I think once they get the light/sign stopping down, then the only thing left to add would be intersection turning, then the car would be FSD

From where they are now to what you are saying, there is a huge gap and lots of folks believe they won't achieve that with the current hardware levels.

My prediction is they will keep adding minor perks to the FSD package to be able to get away with price increases and have more people buying it.

 

[CharleyBC]

I got my car December 2018 with EAP and paid for FSD in March of 2019 during that $2000 sale. I have yet to be contacted by anyone to retrofit to HW3. I guess I'm not in a rush.

I just spoke with my son at lunchtime. He took delivery in April 2018, and bought FSD during the $2K sale. He told me today that he got an email from Tesla in mid-March announcing his HW3 upgrade was ready--pretty much right as we all went into lockdown. He doesn't view it as essential or worth the exposure, so he's waiting for now--scarcely driving anyway.

We took delivery in July 2018, also bought FSD during the sale, and have heard nothing so far. Until recently, I haven't sweated it. But now some of you are starting to have some serious fun with stop signs and such, and I'm getting envious!

 

[Knightshade]

Interesting. But don't we already have autosteer on city streets today?

In same sense that dumb cruise control is the same as smart cruise control if there's no traffic I guess.

Like- you can turn it on, and as long as nothing outside the domain it's actually INTENDED to be used happens- it'll work- then sure.

But otherwise it's a great way to wreck the car since there's tons of situations it's not at all capable of handling and is explicitly NOT MEANT TO.

I know AP is currently only meant to be used on the highway, but technically it does work on city streets, minus the ability to turn right or left at an intersection.

Or the ability to understand someone pulling out of a driveway properly.

or the ability to understand someone turning in front of your car across your lane properly.

Or the ability to properly navigate a roundabout reliably

Or the ability to do a myriad of other things that you encounter on non-highways.

Couldn't one assume that "autosteer on city streets" means AP functionality on city streets with the ability to make right or left turns at intersections? In Elon's recent quarterly review meeting he indicated that right and left city street turning was the next big piece for FSD. I think once they get the light/sign stopping down, then the only thing left to add would be intersection turning, then the car would be FSD. Just my thoughts.

By the definition of the post-april 2020 FSD package? Sure. And only at L2 even.


By the definition of say the pre-march-19 FSD package that's hot garbage not remotely close to what was promised for FSD.

 

[TX_M3P+]

By the definition of say the pre-march-19 FSD package that's hot garbage not remotely close to what was promised for FSD.

Wow, I didn't realize the definition had changes so drastically. Sounds like they are trying to dial the feature back then?

 

[john5520]

Personally I think the pre-March-19 folks get ~$3000 refunds, the wording change means only those who paid the least for it get refunds....and insures the majority of buyers (who by volume of sales will be post march 19) don't.

Getting refunds is the least likely to ever happen. Besides, they're still making bold claims. It really hasn't changed:

The Future of Autopilot
All Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances, at a safety level we believe will be at least twice as good as the average human driver.

Musk has claimed end of this year (or last?) to have FSD ready or something similar. Yet, here we are, still purchasing it knowing it's for the long haul. Besides Musk's verbal promises way back when, did Tesla ever promise an actual deadline on
their website? Serious question.

 

[Knightshade]

Wow, I didn't realize the definition had changes so drastically. Sounds like they are trying to dial the feature back then?

Very much so, yes. And did again a week or two ago changing "automatic" city driving to just "autosteer on city streets"

Musk has claimed end of this year (or last?) to have FSD ready or something similar. Yet, here we are, still purchasing it knowing it's for the long haul. Besides Musk's verbal promises way back when, did Tesla ever promise an actual deadline on
their website? Serious question.

Musk has been promising cross-country self driving "by end of 2017" back in 2016, and has repeated "by end of next year" a couple more years he missed the dates on.

Teslas official docs have never promised a time.

But eventually as other cars start at least offering competent level 2 systems, Tesla will be forced to either offer L3 or better- or admit they can't do that with the HW on the car.

At which point (if it's the admission bit) yes I'd expect there to be refunds for the pre-3/19 folks (or lawsuits, as I said).

I think they could get away with NOT giving them to the post 3/19 folks though, there's nothing in the listed features when you buy that that promises better than L2 in a narrow reading.

 

[TX_M3P+]

I think they could get away with NOT giving them to the post 3/19 folks though, there's nothing in the listed features when you buy that that promises better than L2 in a narrow reading.

i just pulled the trigger on FSD for $4k. FSD is Full Self Driving and if they don't deliver that then I'd expect a refund as well, despite what the description says.

 

[Knightshade]

i just pulled the trigger on FSD for $4k. FSD is Full Self Driving and if they don't deliver that then I'd expect a refund as well, despite what the description says.

FSD is the specific list of features promised when you bought it (and has been since 3/19)

The only one they still need to deliver, at L2, to keep the current promise, is "autosteer on city streets"


Despite the name, nobody gets a refund on a shamwow just because it didn't make em say wow.


(don't get me wrong, as I've said before I think Tesla absolutely HOPES and WANTS to deliver a lot more than that... but I don't see the current HW as capable of ever giving you L5 if that's what you're looking for)

 

[TX_M3P+]

FSD is the specific list of features promised when you bought it (and has been since 3/19)

The only one they still need to deliver, at L2, to keep the current promise, is "autosteer on city streets"


Despite the name, nobody gets a refund on a shamwow just because it didn't make em say wow.


(don't get me wrong, as I've said before I think Tesla absolutely HOPES and WANTS to deliver a lot more than that... but I don't see the current HW as capable of ever giving you L5 if that's what you're looking for)

Sure, HW 3.0 may not be able to get to L5, but if you pay for FSD then it should cover all HW upgrades to get there, no?

 

[Knightshade]

Sure, HW 3.0 may not be able to get to L5, but if you pay for FSD then it should cover all HW upgrades to get there, no?

...no

Because since 3/2019 FSD doesn't say it gets you L5.

It says it gets you a specific list of features- all of which except the automatic city driving are already delivered- and it explicitly states they're ALL features currently requiring driver supervision and they do NOT make the car autonomous.


So if they deliver some L2 version of city street driving- they've delivered what was promised in writing in the feature description.

Both version of the post-3/19 promise list shown in the pic

This is not so for the pre-3/19 buyers though who weren't given just a short specific list of L2 features- but were given a description of an (at least L4) autonomous driving system. That's attached below.

 

[cucubits]

...no

Because since 3/2019 FSD doesn't say it gets you L5.

It says it gets you a specific list of features- all of which except the automatic city driving are already delivered- and it explicitly states they're ALL features currently requiring driver supervision and they do NOT make the car autonomous.


So if they deliver some L2 version of city street driving- they've delivered what was promised in writing in the feature description.

Both version of the post-3/19 promise list shown in the pic


View attachment 539111




This is not so for the pre-3/19 buyers though who weren't given just a short specific list of L2 features- but were given a description of an (at least L4) autonomous driving system. That's attached below.

View attachment 539112

)) Cool! I didn't notice how they sneaked that change in the description. It's been coming later this year for how many years now?

Wonder if this means that those who purchased FSD with the "old" promises, would eventually have a case for refunds.

 

[TX_M3P+]

...no

Because since 3/2019 FSD doesn't say it gets you L5.

It says it gets you a specific list of features- all of which except the automatic city driving are already delivered- and it explicitly states they're ALL features currently requiring driver supervision and they do NOT make the car autonomous.


So if they deliver some L2 version of city street driving- they've delivered what was promised in writing in the feature description.

Both version of the post-3/19 promise list shown in the pic


View attachment 539111




This is not so for the pre-3/19 buyers though who weren't given just a short specific list of L2 features- but were given a description of an (at least L4) autonomous driving system. That's attached below.

View attachment 539112

i guess I'm hoping for delivery of the description given to those prior to 3/2019. i guess a case can be made for semantics, but FSD is FSD in my eyes. It either fully self drives or it doesn't. All I want is to go from A to B without having to touch the wheel, to me that is FSD. Even if I can get close to that, I'd be happy for the money spent. My real fear is that paying the money now ($4k) will not cover future HW upgrades to get me to FSD, should HW 4.0 or 5.0 be required..