Upgraded To OEM Performance Brakes

[MasterC17]

I tried to find info about STR-60 BBK from MPP but couldn't find any. Has anyone here used MPP's BBK and willing to share the experience? How does it compare to Brembo GTS or even the new Pista FF?

What specifically are you looking for? I have them on one of the cars. They're STR-60 Calipers paired with 368x35mm slotted Girodisc rotors. I coupled the kit with Raybestos ST-45 Pads. They work nicely, much improved feel and consistency over stock, no overheating problems at all. Install was easy, everything fit perfectly as you would expect from MPP.

Arguably, the rotors are the most important aspect of a BBK, and in this case the 368x35 MPP kit is quite a big larger than the 355x32 kit from Brembo. It looks like the Brembo Caliper pad measures 132x77mm versus the MPP kit at 152x74mm.

So, seems pretty clear to me that you are getting more thermal capacity with the MPP kit; if that's what you were interested in.

 

[butterscotch]

What specifically are you looking for? I have them on one of the cars. They're STR-60 Calipers paired with 368x35mm slotted Girodisc rotors. I coupled the kit with Raybestos ST-45 Pads. They work nicely, much improved feel and consistency over stock, no overheating problems at all. Install was easy, everything fit perfectly as you would expect from MPP.

Arguably, the rotors are the most important aspect of a BBK, and in this case the 368x35 MPP kit is quite a big larger than the 355x32 kit from Brembo. It looks like the Brembo Caliper pad measures 132x77mm versus the MPP kit at 152x74mm.

So, seems pretty clear to me that you are getting more thermal capacity with the MPP kit; if that's what you were interested in.

I've never used any BKK in my life so just wondering the overall feeling. Currently I'm on stock performance caliper and rotors paired with Cabotech XP24 front/XP20 rear and run SRF brake fluid and I felt it was enough (but definitely could be better and would like my stopping distance to be shorter) for my last track day abuse were I ran 5 laps per session and ran 4 sessions. I like how XP24/XP20 performs on the track but on the street it's crazy squeaky loud when rotors aren't hot enough lol.

Would STR-60's 380mm rotor fit 18 inch wheels? is Raybestos ST-45 pad track pad? What other track grade pads would you recommend?

 

[MasterC17]

I've never used any BKK in my life so just wondering the overall feeling. Currently I'm on stock performance caliper and rotors paired with Cabotech XP24 front/XP20 rear and run SRF brake fluid and I felt it was enough (but definitely could be better and would like my stopping distance to be shorter) for my last track day abuse were I ran 5 laps per session and ran 4 sessions. I like how XP24/XP20 performs on the track but on the street it's crazy squeaky loud when rotors aren't hot enough lol.

Would STR-60's 380mm rotor fit 18 inch wheels? is Raybestos ST-45 pad track pad? What other track grade pads would you recommend?

A BBK is going to be stiffer than the stock fixed Brembo's, so I would expect a more firm, immediate pedal feel. The biggest difference with a BBK is the consistency and predictability.

I don't think a BBK alone will decrease your stopping distance (assuming all within operating temp). You should be able to engage the ABS with the stock brakes.

The one thing I really don't like about Carbotech's are the noise. They are far and away the noisiest pads I have ever used. I don't think 380mm rotors would fit under 18's, but every wheel is different. I think MPP can send you measurements to check with.

The Raybestos ST-45 is a track pad. The ST-43 is another very good option. They are reasonably priced and last a long time, relatively quiet as well. My favorite pad is the Ferodo DS3.1 - but the cost is considerably higher.

 

[Knightshade]

I don't think a BBK alone will decrease your stopping distance (assuming all within operating temp). You should be able to engage the ABS with the stock brakes.

Yup.

A BBK can keep you at the SAME stopping distance over more repeated hard stops in so short a period the brakes have no time to cool.

They can't stop you any shorter than the stock brakes the first time though unless the stock brakes are so poor they're already overheating DURING a first stop.

If you want to stop shorter the first time you need better tires, not better brakes.

Anyone unclear on this I refer to the guy who teaches SAE master classes on braking system design and has literally written books on this explaining what each part of the braking system does, and why none of them stop the car any shorter (and also what upgrading them CAN do for you- and why tires are what actually stop the car):

GRM Pulp Friction

 

[butterscotch]

Yup.

A BBK can keep you at the SAME stopping distance over more repeated hard stops in so short a period the brakes have no time to cool.

They can't stop you any shorter than the stock brakes the first time though unless the stock brakes are so poor they're already overheating DURING a first stop.

If you want to stop shorter the first time you need better tires, not better brakes.

Anyone unclear on this I refer to the guy who teaches SAE master classes on braking system design and has literally written books on this explaining what each part of the braking system does, and why none of them stop the car any shorter (and also what upgrading them CAN do for you- and why tires are what actually stop the car):

GRM Pulp Friction

Thanks for the explanation, could you kindly link me to the said SAE master class? I'd like to gain more knowledge on the brake system and bust all the myths stores advise them to be.

 

[butterscotch]

A BBK is going to be stiffer than the stock fixed Brembo's, so I would expect a more firm, immediate pedal feel. The biggest difference with a BBK is the consistency and predictability.

I don't think a BBK alone will decrease your stopping distance (assuming all within operating temp). You should be able to engage the ABS with the stock brakes.

The one thing I really don't like about Carbotech's are the noise. They are far and away the noisiest pads I have ever used. I don't think 380mm rotors would fit under 18's, but every wheel is different. I think MPP can send you measurements to check with.

The Raybestos ST-45 is a track pad. The ST-43 is another very good option. They are reasonably priced and last a long time, relatively quiet as well. My favorite pad is the Ferodo DS3.1 - but the cost is considerably higher.

Yup, I don't like Carbotech's noise when cold, when temperature gets up to the working range then it's fine but on the street, it's killing me. Could you kindly link me to the Raybesto ST-45 and Ferodo DS3.1 please?

 

[Tevo Solutions]

Several of us are using Carbotech XP10 pads here and as long as hold mode is used (which most drivers seem to prefer here) we get no noise from them cold or hot. It's only in creep mode at very slow speeds when we've had a few issues with noise.
Maybe it's an issue with XP20/24 but we don't get it with XP10.

 

[Knightshade]

Thanks for the explanation, could you kindly link me to the said SAE master class? I'd like to gain more knowledge on the brake system and bust all the myths stores advise them to be.

From the author of the blog? Sure.

scR motorsports | SAE International Seminars

To register for SAE Seminars by SCR's James Walker, He developed a portfolio of vehicle dynamics & hydraulic brake system course. Call Now 724-772-8529!

teamscr.com

He has 3 different ones, though none are currently listed as scheduled (presumably they stopped doing em for covid reasons).

Example course description of one of them from SAE themselves-

https://www.sae.org/exempt/contedu/events/C0414.html

If you'd like to read the book he wrote on high performance braking systems it's here:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08DL3LTYK

He's also got a number of technical white papers he's written for folks like Stoptech, but they've made those harder to find- but if you google "james walker jr stoptech white paper" you'll find links to the PDFs of a number of them.

 

[MasterC17]

Yup, I don't like Carbotech's noise when cold, when temperature gets up to the working range then it's fine but on the street, it's killing me. Could you kindly link me to the Raybesto ST-45 and Ferodo DS3.1 please?

Unfortunately, they are only available off the shelf for the aftermarket calipers. You might be able to get Ken at KNS Brakes to get you a custom set for the stock performance Model 3 front caliper, but that seems to be hit or miss.

 

[Coolknot]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the cost of the parts new from Tesla is roughly $3,500. I'm not sure what they would charge for labor, but probably 4 to 6 hours.

On another note, I've made custom jumper harnesses. The cost for the jumpers from Tesla is $100 each, which just seems crazy for what they are. If anyone is interested, I'll sell these for $130 shipped for the pair. Save's a little bit of cash and sales tax.

View attachment 546414 View attachment 546415

Do you still have the cables available?

 

[MasterC17]

Do you still have the cables available?

Sorry, I do not.

 

[superflyrolla]

I know this thread has gone down a different path but I wanted to say thanks for posting all this info to let people know the swap was possible. I had the MPP 365mm grey caliper relocation kit on the car but wanted to run 18x10.5 +25 wheels with a little more offset in the rear for autocross and be able to use the aero’s, so I recently swapped to M3P front calipers and rear rotors. After selling the 365 kit, my overall cost was about $800. Got calipers on EBay & rotors at a service center.

 

[PIaid]

I thought I’d provide an update since I forgot to when I did the swap. I got all the parts from Tesla and did the swap last year. It was pretty straight forward and was able to do it without any mechanical experience. Basically a plug and play kinda thing. I’d say the biggest pain in the ass was changing out the dust shields for front and rear since I had to take out the hub. Bleeding the brakes also took some time but not hard. I painted the rotor hats matte black since I didn’t really like the gray color. I also bought new rims to fit the calipers. Overall, really like the performance look while keeping the long range and saving some money. I can say that based on my experience the brakes do feel a lot better.

 

[metroplex]

Dies anyone know if the rear base/LR Mando calipers are steel or aluminum?

 

[MasterC17]

Dies anyone know if the rear base/LR Mando calipers are steel or aluminum?

Aluminum

 

[s55jesus]

I’m doing the conversion right now and you do need to change out the rear dust shields. The Performance calipers do not fit over the base model shields.

 

[SteelClouds]

The updated shields do not need the hubs removed. And I will verify you need. Performance shields with performance calipers.