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Upgrading AWD

Nb1277

Member
Apr 3, 2016
129
64
Massachusetts
As AWD and P use the same motors, inverters etc. (only differences are lot sorting and testing) are there technical limitations to Tesla offering a paid upgrade to Performance after delivery?
 

commasign

TeslaAdviceBlog.com
Aug 31, 2013
3,202
4,178
Davis, CA
As AWD and P use the same motors, inverters etc. (only differences are lot sorting and testing) are there technical limitations to Tesla offering a paid upgrade to Performance after delivery?

I think the sorting and testing is critical. Same reason Intel and AMD don't offer software upgrades to increase CPU frequencies.
 
Dec 2, 2017
358
339
Arizona
I think the sorting and testing is critical. Same reason Intel and AMD don't offer software upgrades to increase CPU frequencies.
Good analogy, but then again, you can overclock Intel and AMD CPUs. I wonder if Tesla could offer such an upgrade at the owner’s risk if their concern is one of future reliability. Also may depends on how much variance there is in their inverters, etc. If 2 sigma from the mean hardly makes a difference then their sorting may also not make much difference.
 

commasign

TeslaAdviceBlog.com
Aug 31, 2013
3,202
4,178
Davis, CA
Good analogy, but then again, you can overclock Intel and AMD CPUs. I wonder if Tesla could offer such an upgrade at the owner’s risk if their concern is one of future reliability. Also may depends on how much variance there is in their inverters, etc. If 2 sigma from the mean hardly makes a difference then their sorting may also not make much difference.

True. Maybe a future "uncorking" will improve the LR AWD 0-60mph to around 4 seconds. A nice bump but still differentiates it from the P version.
 

commasign

TeslaAdviceBlog.com
Aug 31, 2013
3,202
4,178
Davis, CA
I don't think a software upgrade to P is out of the question. The hardware is the same, "selection" and "burning in" notwithstanding.

Or maybe even a hardware upgrade if there's a significant difference between the motors. Tesla swaps out motors for warranty purposes all the time. Much easier than swapping out a gasoline engine. Maybe they could charge $25000 for the upgrade ($5000 or so more than getting a P upfront).
 

Mayhem

Professional F5 Presser
Apr 27, 2018
180
143
USA
There is motor selection and 'burn in' as tweeted by Tesla's CEO. BUT that doesn't mean that's the extent of it. I'm willing to be there is a lot more going on that only Tesla engineers know about. If someone is considering AWD in hopes of getting P performance, they should just get P. Tesla does have to keep product stratification (via software throttling if needed) to maintain high margins revenue.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
12,769
18,819
NC
I don't think a software upgrade to P is out of the question. The hardware is the same, "selection" and "burning in" notwithstanding.

Or maybe even a hardware upgrade if there's a significant difference between the motors. Tesla swaps out motors for warranty purposes all the time. Much easier than swapping out a gasoline engine. Maybe they could charge $25000 for the upgrade ($5000 or so more than getting a P upfront).


The motors are already the same motors.

But we don't know, for sure, that there's no other HW differences that allow higher discharge rates between the batteries and the motor.... (on the S for example it's the fuse and contactor)
 

Daniel in SD

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2018
6,851
9,729
San Diego
What doesn't make sense to me is that 3.5s is only 46% faster than 5.1s. So if they're using the same rear motor and controller as the LR then the front motor just has to be about half the power of the rear motor to achieve the performance 0-60 time. There's no need for a better rear motor or controller at all.
I think the binned motor thing might be mostly BS.
Are we sure they're not putting a smaller rear motor in the regular AWD like they did with the S?
 
Dec 2, 2017
358
339
Arizona
The motors are already the same motors.

But we don't know, for sure, that there's no other HW differences that allow higher discharge rates between the batteries and the motor.... (on the S for example it's the fuse and contactor)
Maybe but it seems likely that Tesla would rather keep the production line as similar as possible in this case.
 

MXWing

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2016
7,460
19,661
USA
What doesn't make sense to me is that 3.5s is only 46% faster than 5.1s. So if they're using the same rear motor and controller as the LR then the front motor just has to be about half the power of the rear motor to achieve the performance 0-60 time. There's no need for a better rear motor or controller at all.
I think the binned motor thing might be mostly BS.
Are we sure they're not putting a smaller rear motor in the regular AWD like they did with the S?

Until Tesla can make the S faster, it makes sense to antisell the 3. Meaning closer to 3 than 3.5 is the true performance.

After all, the Model 3 P is HALF the price of a P100D.
 

commasign

TeslaAdviceBlog.com
Aug 31, 2013
3,202
4,178
Davis, CA
Until Tesla can make the S faster, it makes sense to antisell the 3. Meaning closer to 3 than 3.5 is the true performance.

After all, the Model 3 P is HALF the price of a P100D.

Agreed. Elon said maybe they can make the 3P a little faster. If that means 0.1 seconds, and then possibly with rollout (since Elon didn’t say 3.5 seconds with rollout) being another 0.2 seconds, the 3P might actually hit 0-60mph in 3.2 seconds on the drag strip. That’s the same acceleration as the original P85D insane.
 
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Daniel in SD

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2018
6,851
9,729
San Diego
Until Tesla can make the S faster, it makes sense to antisell the 3. Meaning closer to 3 than 3.5 is the true performance.

After all, the Model 3 P is HALF the price of a P100D.
They can't really make the S faster from 0-60 though. They're pretty much at the traction limit unless they start shipping it with drag racing tires. I would like to see a manufacturer try some sort of active downforce like a fan to suck the car towards the ground...
So you think they might unlock more performance later?
 
Dec 2, 2017
358
339
Arizona
What doesn't make sense to me is that 3.5s is only 46% faster than 5.1s. So if they're using the same rear motor and controller as the LR then the front motor just has to be about half the power of the rear motor to achieve the performance 0-60 time. There's no need for a better rear motor or controller at all.
I think the binned motor thing might be mostly BS.
Are we sure they're not putting a smaller rear motor in the regular AWD like they did with the S?
I think they are the same - if you take a look at the configurator the picture is identical for both.

 

Daniel in SD

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2018
6,851
9,729
San Diego
I think they are the same - if you take a look at the configurator the picture is identical for both.

I suppose they could do a cost down in the future but for now they want the production simplicity of a single rear motor design. That would mean that the AWD is severely nerfed unless we are to believe that the front motor is only 10% of the power the rear. Though I suppose that wouldn't be a crazy design if your primary goal is snow and ice traction.
 
Dec 2, 2017
358
339
Arizona
I suppose they could do a cost down in the future but for now they want the production simplicity of a single rear motor design. That would mean that the AWD is severely nerfed unless we are to believe that the front motor is only 10% of the power the rear. Though I suppose that wouldn't be a crazy design if your primary goal is snow and ice traction.
Yep, I think it’s nerfed, and I think even the P is nerfed.
 
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