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Upgrading from LEAF to Tesla

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I own both a Leaf and a Tesla. I first owned a Tesla and it wasn't until buying a Leaf as a second family car that I truly understood the constraints of an electric car. The Leaf is great for short distances around town but that's about it. For me, it's perfect since it keeps my kids close to home. But comparing it to a Tesla ends at the fact that they are both electric vehicles. There really is no comparison after that and that's not to dissmiss the Leaf. I think it's a really great car for the limited purpose it can serve. It's just not in the same league as a Tesla. For that matter, no other electric car is.
 
Welcome to the forum baw! I also leased a Leaf starting in August of 2012 and we received our 85kWh Model S November of 2012, so I will try to give you my experience having both cars. My reference points for my Model S charging are all from charging at the maximum daily trip level of 90%. There is still another 10% of charging capacity available for longer trips that I could charge up to in order to increase the Model S range. My Leaf reference point is charging at 100%.

1) Real world range - I live in the Seattle area, so we don't get extreme cold or much snow. My experience with colder weather was temperatures in the 30's to 40's as general lows in the winters. But we do get rain and windy conditions in the winter which can increase drag on the car from both the rolling and air resistance perspective. Your observations about the Leaf match my experience here in Seattle though. In the winter, I would only feel comfortable driving my Leaf 30 to 40 miles before getting a charge. I would not try to baby the car to maximize the range. I tend to just drive the car like any other car and be comfortable in the cabin with the heat on. With our 85kWh Model S, in my normal driving in the Seattle area, I never have any concern about the range I have. In the winter, with highway driving in the rain and cold, cabin heat on at a comfortable level our car our actual range is around 200 to 220 miles (We have the 21 inch performance tires on our car). So I consider Tesla's range estimates on their online calculator fairly accurate (we have a lot of hills in my area, especially where my residence is and I drive the hills daily, so that impacts our range quite a bit). The range impact of cabin heat and cold weather is not as high in a Tesla vs. a Leaf partially because the total range is so much larger in a Tesla. If you burn up 20 miles of battery range in the Leaf through cold outside weather and heating the cabin, that represents a significant percentage of the Leaf's actual 70 or so miles of actual range. If you burn up those same 20 miles of battery range in the 85kWh Model S and you have a actual starting range of 220 miles, you are not having nearly the same percentage impact on your usable range.

2) Heat comes out very quickly vs. Leaf. I would say with in 1 minute in my car if I don't preheat. But the iPhone app I have with the Model S is significantly better than the Leaf's iPhone app HVAC controls. The Tesla app allows you to turn the HVAC on and off as well as select the specific temperature you want. It also gives you feedback as to what the cabin temperature is (although my temperature readings are not accurate in terms of actual temperature because of issues with the temperature sensor placement in early VIN cars. I've learned to adjust the indicated temperatures to match an actual temperature in the car). With the Model S, you can be more comfortable invoking the preheat/cool functions compared to the Leaf because the Model S has so much more battery capacity. With the Leaf I would burn up 5 miles of range preheating/cooling the car if it wasn't plugged into the wall. That is a significant percentage of it's usable range (call it about 40 miles in the winter for me). With the Model S, if it burned up 5 miles, that is a small percentage of the 220 usable miles we have available. So the cabin heat works great in the Model S compared to my Leaf - warm air out of my Model S vents very quickly.

3) Yes, you can use your existing charger. The Model S comes with a J1772 adapter end. You stick that on your existing equipment to make it compatible with the Tesla charge port. No other modifications required. I would use a JESLA charger with a J1772 end for both my Leaf and Model S in my garage and it worked great. a 240V/30A charger will return about 17 to 20 miles of range per hour of charge on the Model S. Your Leaf sounds like it had that 6.6kW charging system, so you probably will experience a similar charge rate with the Model S as you had with your Leaf. For most commutes, that should be more than plenty of charging speed. Say you drove 80 miles a day and had the occasional day where you drove 120 miles. An 85kWh Model S would still have about 100 miles of usable range left and all you would be doing would be would be adding in a safety buffer for the next day's commute. If your battery was almost empty and you had a 80 mile round trip commute the next day, you would need about 5 to 6 hours with your current charging setup to make sure you had enough range and a bit of a buffer.

4) We have experienced very little battery degradation with our Model S. We have about 35,000 miles on our car now and we usually charge it to between 80% and 90% of maximum capacity. We've taken it on longer road trips for a week at a time and have range charged it (100% capacity) on those occasions and used the Tesla Supercharger network extensively on our road trips. So I believe our car is a good use case in terms of overall battery use. Tesla has changed the calculation algorithms a few times since we first received our car, so it's hard to say what actual degradation has happened. All I can say is that right now my 90% capacity charge is showing about 233 miles of rated range, which translates into about 200 to 220 miles of real world range for us. There are Model S's that have significantly more miles then our car and have reported minimal battery degradation. The battery management technology is more advanced than the Leaf, which is part of the reason for the improved experience of the Model S over time.

The Model S is an entirely different car vs. a Leaf. The Leaf was a car that was definitely a commuter car where I had to be very aware of it's range if I was going to drive beyond 40 miles and I had to be sure to charge it on a daily basis. The Model S is a car that just happens to be electric and I treat it as a regular car for most purposes. I don't have to plug it in every day. Longer-range trips do still require thinking about charging stops, but there is not the day-to-day range concern that can be there with the Leaf.

Perhaps the best way I can explain the Leaf vs. the Model S experience is that when my Leaf lease expired, I went and bought a BMW i3 with range extender. The only reason I did that was because the Model X wasn't available yet. I have a reservation in for the Model X and as soon as that arrives next year, I will be selling my BMW i3 and taking delivery of the Model X!
 
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I've also just transitioned from a 2013 leaf to a Model S just three months ago, and it's been pretty awesome.

I agree with everything that has been said so far but I'd like to add the following points to be aware of:


  • Since everything is automatic you'll get used to it and when driving other cars you'll constantly forget to lock it since you've gotten used to your car auto locking.
    • On that same note, DO not leave your keys in your car (Tesla). It is very easy for somebody to steal it if you do. The door will not lock and they'll just sit in and drive away. Whereas at least if you leave your keys in other cars the thief would have to find your keys first (at least it's something)
  • The Tesla actually gets it's actual rated miles up at about 65mph, whereas the leaf's range drops considerably with anything over 55.
  • However, in stop and go traffic the leaf actually holds up to it's rated range better the the model S.
    • If you're constantly in stop and go traffic the leaf is a much lighter car and you don't expend as much energy as the Model S and I've noticed that the rated range does drop for the Model S in these situations.
  • Your insurance will go up a lot, but that true for any luxury car. Hopefully you'll know this is coming.
  • Along the note of insurance get yourself a dashcam and get it now. Don't get a crappy one, it's not worth it. It is expensive to fix parts on this car and anything that can prove fault when talking with your insurance is a big plus. I got the DR550GW-2CH and it's been great.
    • If I have time I may put up pictures for how I've routed it. There are other people that have also done it, and one adventurous soul that actually drilled holes holes into his car to route the wires.


Other then those points I would say to just enjoy the car!
 
I too have a 2011 LEAF and a 2014 85KW Model S. However, we live in the desert. So I can't comment on cooling, but both the LEAF and Tesla have wonderful A/C. Neither seem to be range robbing.

My LEAF was a great introduction to electric cars. It works/worked well for my 40 mile RT commute- When I got the S, my wife took over driving the LEAF the same 40 mile commute. We're at 30K miles and have lost our 3rd battery bar- so a new battery is probably coming for the LEAF in the next year (Under warranty though). I've got to say that the LEAF while a pretty good car for a 40 mile commute even in the desert, is only a commuter car- You still need something else for other trips and long weekends. The Model S on the other hand can be your only car. I've only had the Model S a few months, but it's fantastic, I would only say, "Bring on the Superchargers" as I'm planning cross country trip in the winter and I'm not too keen on the idea of winter driving, ( I haven't had to winter drive in over 30 years since moving to the desert) You will be very happy with the Model S. I think your other questions have been answered by previous reply's so I'll leave them out of my response. One final comment: Order your Tesla today- you won't regret it!

I guess in the spirt of full disclosure I should say my Daughter drives Volt- it's also a very nice car, and if pressed, I'd probably buy the Volt over the LEAF if I had to do the first purchase again- The LEAF is realistically a 40Mile electric car, and while the LEAF could do more than that new- as it ages, it's just not an 80Mile car- and the Volt, is pretty much a 38Mile electric car with a gas backup. So if you can't afford a Telsa, a Volt is a good second choice in my opinion.
 
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On range in the cold.
Go to EVTripPlanner.com. Enter your preferred parameters (be realistic) for a drive you're familiar with. The estimates are about 10% conservative in my experience--if it says 200 miles rated range it will probably take you 180 miles rated range. Recognize that you will have below zero days in the morning where there's a 10-15mph headwind. Enter those types of conditions and see what you think.

Having said that, I have worried about range. When I do a 200 mile stretch on the highway where the speed limit is 70mph, 30F and a bit of a headwind, i have to pay attention and slow down below the speed limit. I have all the information to make good decisions and have never been in a situation where I would get stranded but I can't simply turn my brain off. There's been some filling in of superchargers in those big gap areas so might not be as big a deal as it once was.
 
4) We have experienced very little battery degradation with our Model S. We have about 35,000 miles on our car now and we usually charge it to between 80% and 90% of maximum capacity. We've taken it on longer road trips for a week at a time and have range charged it (100% capacity) on those occasions and used the Tesla Supercharger network extensively on our road trips. So I believe our car is a good use case in terms of overall battery use. Tesla has changed the calculation algorithms a few times since we first received our car, so it's hard to say what actual degradation has happened. All I can say is that right now my 90% capacity charge is showing about 233 miles of rated range, which translates into about 200 to 220 miles of real world range for us. There are Model S's that have significantly more miles then our car and have reported minimal battery degradation. The battery management technology is more advanced than the Leaf, which is part of the reason for the improved experience of the Model S over time.
Just another data point...

I took delivery after Blurry (i.e. my car is slightly newer). I have just under 41k miles. I've never range/trip (100%) charged. My daily 90% is currently in the 221-223 range. Some would say that's "not real" (meaning with balancing at 100% the reported number would improve). I've been aggressive with my vehicle (some driving events). My lifetime average is 393 Wh/mi. which is "generally high" compared to the overall populace. Part of that is living on a hill, and using 21" wheels (with, of course, summer performance tires).
 
Huh !?!?!?

20 mos. and 36,000 miles with a 160-mile commute utilizing a 14-30 at ONLY 24 amps is more than ample for us.

Everyone is different. If you had a 160 mile daily round trip commute and you got home late each night you might not be able to fully charge each night. For most people it is fine though. It's still slow though.
 
One thing I have not seen mentioned is the difference in regen. Since I switch between my Leaf and Tesla all the time I have to change driving styles. I enjoy "one pedal" driving with the Tesla. The regen on the Model S is very aggressive ( in the standard setting) and I use it to slow down most of the time. For planned stops I almost never need the brake. Of course when I switch to the Leaf I have to change habits quickly!
We have 11,980 miles on the Tesla since delivery so I can tell you road trips where there are Superchargers are great. I appreciate all the feedback in this thread since we will be driving to upstate NY in December.
 
Yes the regen is quite different, I drive the Model S one footed most of the time, and when i do drive the LEAF, I have to remember it's regen isn't very strong. Another point, the LEAF requires you push a button to turn it on or off- I actually forgot to turn off the LEAF at the store the other day, I hadn't driven it in a while and simply was too used to the Model S, and it's way of just being on when you get in and put your foot on the brake, and off when you get out.
 
Yes the regen is quite different, I drive the Model S one footed most of the time, and when i do drive the LEAF, I have to remember it's regen isn't very strong. Another point, the LEAF requires you push a button to turn it on or off- I actually forgot to turn off the LEAF at the store the other day, I hadn't driven it in a while and simply was too used to the Model S, and it's way of just being on when you get in and put your foot on the brake, and off when you get out.


+1 - I've also left the Leaf on a few times as well!
 
Thanks for all the replies and warm welcome here! I am still digesting all the information, but it sounds like my concerns have been addressed with the Model S. Always good to check with the actual community though :) I am going to go in for a test drive in the next few days and I will certainly provide my feedback (here) on the vehicle if I indeed pull the trigger on this. The answers here have helped me a lot. Thanks again!
 
Welcome to the forum and I have my standard request:
If you do "upgrade" in this fashion, please report back on your experiences after driving the Model S for a couple weeks. It's very interesting for those of us (me included) for which the Model S was our introduction to EV ownership.

This is an old thread that I started back in 2014, but here I am to "report back" :)

I finally pulled the trigger on the MS 75D back in April and traded in my LEAF after 5 years of ownership.
So it's been 7 months with the MS. Overall I am very impressed and pleased with the car despite several glitches/issues (some of which I discuss in other threads on this forum).

* Here is my answer to #1:
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- High speed driving (highway). Mostly insignificant. However, if headwinds present, definite cost in range. We observed a noticeable drop on a road trip back in the Summer months. I think it was around 20-30 miles on a 200 mile trip. As a result, we made sure to go beyond the suggested amount at the super charger when we continued our journey.

- It is now just getting real cold for the first time (40s and 30s) and will soon be even colder. There IS a noticeable reduction in range. For example, over the past couple of days I drove ~73 miles which cost me ~113 in range (~35%). I did not test without heat usage (I prefer to be comfortable and have cabin temperature set at 71) so I cannot say how much is attributable to just the battery loss in the cold vs. battery loss due to cabin heat generation. I suspect that it is the cabin heat generation though. As another poster noted though, we have plenty of range (I have 260 and charge to 230) so I guess its a non issue for every day use.

* #2: I pretty much get cabin heat right away. That's great and a big deal for me!

* #3: I ended up just installing the Tesla charger

* #4: Not too concerned any more. I leased :)
 
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Hello guys, this question comes regularly and what is difficult is that you often receive qualitative statement about the impact of each criteria or "vague" quantitative info.
So I read a lot, look at all the video with real life experience I could find and different tables available and I have "build" this very simple excel file to get the information about consumption per:
  • speed
  • additional weight in the car
  • outside temperature
for the S100D (my father car) and a S75D (mine that I should receive in 2 weeks): Consumption Tesla.xlsx
https://1drv.ms/x/s!AiofmP7GHwjrp-s91Q3auMOLh1j_6g
I cannot yet fine tune it for the S75D obviously but we use it with my father on 2 long trip with various speed legs and it was close to spot on.
And when entering the 110km/h consumption based on weight and exterior temperature in the www.abetterrouteplanner.com setting (the setting is taking this consumption as a reference for the calculation), it almost exactly matches the real consumption.

So I think this is a good start to have an idea of consumption depending on the speed / temperature.
And obviously, I would be glad if people could give me different data points or feedback to refine this basic estimator.
We could add the Model X as well...
 
- High speed driving (highway). Mostly insignificant. However, if headwinds present, definite cost in range. We observed a noticeable drop on a road trip back in the Summer months. I think it was around 20-30 miles on a 200 mile trip. As a result, we made sure to go beyond the suggested amount at the super charger when we continued our journey.

I find the evtripplanner.com give very good estimates for long trips, you can enter temperatures, headwind, etc. As for high speed highway driving, it can make a difference, especially when you want to cruise through places where the speed limit is 80mph. When I drove coast to coast last year, some legs of the trip I supercharged to 95%+ and then kept the speed just low enough to get to the next supercharger with few miles left (towards the end I was power limited). Below is an example of what high speed CAN do to power consumption as compared to Tesla estimate (to be fair, for some reason Tesla was often not aware of the 80mph limits as it would often show me lower than posted speed limit on long stretches without a speed limit sign, so I guess the estimates were based on much slower driving?). This was using a P85DL in ~60F sunny weather, the 259 rated miles turned into ~155 real miles. Of course, I had the option to slow down and go farther, but it's more fun to drive faster, even if it costs you extra time at the supercharger ;). Evtripplanner called this (and most others) leg of the trip almost exactly btw.
SC2SC.png


As for temperature, it also affects range but personally I found parking long periods in the cold and especially with wind exposures cost the most visible loses - the car end up frozen "to the bone" and uses up energy while parked to stay alive and then to heat back up (while having limited performance and charging capabilities). If you ever go on a long trip and plan to spend a cold night near a supercharger location, supercharge when you first get there if you want to save time (in the morning charging while cold may be really slow), but if range is what you need, then charge in the morning (will take longer but you will start with a full and warm battery).
 
I myself came from a 2011 Nissan leaf to a CPO 2013 S 85. My battery degradation on my leaf was way worse. Reached 66% @ 3 years and 58k miles, had it replaced (under warranty) and had already reached ~75% in another 3 years on the second battery. From what I can tell ya beyond the wow factor:

  • The Tesla range meter is MUCH better than the "guess o' meter' from the Leaf. I do get real world driving around the estimated range. Even highway driving @ 65 mph the Tesla cruises and actually gets REALLY good range (WAY better than the Leaf). My range only really drops if there is high wind. The best conservative is highway driving nets you 30% less range. I use that all the time and never had issues.
  • Heat is really good. My old 2011 leaf had a resistance heater (no heat pump) so the Tesla uses just as much juice. It will affect your range, but the seat warmers are very nice. The battery conditioning (via preheat and its normal conditioning) helps a bunch in colder weather so you make up a bit for that.
  • Battery degradation was minimal. My 2013 had 49k miles on it with ~1% capacity loss. Yes ONE PERCENT. My leaf already had 30%+ at that mileage. A HUGE difference.
  • Your charger will work fine. All the Teslas have a J1772 adapter and I used my old 30a charger for awhile before i purchased a Tesla high capacity wall charger (my CPO came with dual chargers and a I wanted to get full use of them).
  • It will take a bit to get over the range anxiety. For a long time I would calculate routes and miles thinking "do I need to charge" - now if its in my metroplex (DFW region) I don't worry any more.
 
Welcome to the forum! I have both a -15 LEAF and an -16 Model S. Here are my experiences:

1) Real world range, in Florida where I live. Both cars give me about EPA rated or better around town, I would call it a draw between two. The S gives me around EPA on the highway (70-80 mph), whereas the LEAF gives me 1/2 to 2/3 of EPA on the highway. Model S wins highway consumption with a landslide compared to LEAF. My S has slipstream wheels though. My old S had 21" turbine and only got 90% of EPA on the highway. In addition to this the range indicator is pretty linear on the S. My LEAF indicator is all over the place, can suddenly go form 20 miles to 0 (showing --)

2) Heat comes on immediately in the S.

3) Can I use my existing indoor garage charger. Yes, with the included Tesla J1772 adapter. Pro is you can keep your Tesla cable in the car in case you need to plug in somewhere else.

4) Yearly battery degradation? Can't compare my cars because the Leaf has no means of showing single digit degradation. I only know that you lose the top segment of the battery indicator when you hit 15% degradation. My -16 S has lost 2.8% over 26000 miles and my -12 S lost 3.7% over 4 years 48000 miles.


There is a lot more to it though. As you know, Model S has been voted, rightfully so, best car in the world by most car reviewers whereas the Leaf is based on the Nissan Versa. The best car that money can buy and an economy car are of course hard to even compare.
 
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