UPS, part 2

[gpez]

Not to be repetitive, but I can confirm all of these models work without any changes or calls to Tesla. 5S700, 5S1500, 3S550. They are a bit pricey but you don't really need any of the normal UPS features since the Powerwall itself is what is your real battery backup.

I think maybe you missed the context of my comment with a previous one (#8 on this thread).

My point was not that they don't work at higher frequency, each of those models are "tolerant" of the 65hz frequency. The problem is that since the lower grade models are not "online" they simply pass the 65hz AC to whatever is plugged in, which in the case of a computer power supply exceeds the spec and can cause damage. You should avoid this approach and rather get Tesla to lower your frequency rather than swapping the UPS for a more tolerant one.

One thing I think people keep forgetting is that even though the Eaton UPSs are tolerant of frequency changes all the way up to 70hz your computer's power supply is likely not. The Intel ATX standard and subsequent power supply design guidelines state that the maximum input frequency is 63hz: Power Supply Design Guide for Desktop Platform Form Factors (intel.com) (page 14). Exceeding that limit could cause all sorts of problems, from crashes all the way up to equipment damage. Of course some PSUs may have higher tolerances but that will vary by manufacturer and model.

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Your best approach by far is to get Tesla to reduce the maximum frequency of your system below 63hz with 62hz being a good value. Getting a UPS that is tolerant of high frequencies is a band aid and not a very good one.

 

[wbhokie]

I think maybe you missed the context of my comment with a previous one (#8 on this thread).

My point was not that they don't work at higher frequency, each of those models are "tolerant" of the 65hz frequency. The problem is that since the lower grade models are not "online" they simply pass the 65hz AC to whatever is plugged in, which in the case of a computer power supply exceeds the spec and can cause damage. You should avoid this approach and rather get Tesla to lower your frequency rather than swapping the UPS for a more tolerant one.

I didn't miss it.

 

[vekexasia]

Good Morning guys, I've been reading this and the other thread.

It seems i have a different issue (or at least didn't find many with mine).

When the PW goes into backup (no matter the charge %) all my UPS shut down immediately. I initially thought it was the ups that was too old but i recently bought another cheap one and they all behave the same. Power Outage? Instant UPS shutdown.

If i manually re-arm the UPSes everything goes fine and the UPS does use the PW supplied energy.

The problem is that i need to manually re-arm the ups, that's why i'd like to understand the reason why my ups just instantly shut down without providing any current to the attached devices. I always thought that in case of power surge or issues with the input, the ups would disconnect itself from the mainline and start providing the current from the internal batteries until Vin, Hertz etc was fine again.

Can some of you shed some light to my situation?

 

[Krash]

…When the PW goes into backup (no matter the charge %) all my UPS shut down immediately…

What model(s) UPS do you have?

 

[RKCRLR]

I started having problems with my router and some of my home entertainment components (including DVR) when I had my Powerwalls installed. For me, the problem was the switchover was not fast enough to keep the devices from tripping but not slow enough to do a complete reset. They would just lockup and I would have to pull the power for a few seconds to reset them. This wasn't a problem prior to the Powerwalls since power outages was long enough to allow the devices to reset.

I bought a couple of these during a Black Friday sale:

APC Back UPS, 650VA/360W, Floor/Wall Mount 120V, 7x NEMA 5-15R outlets, USB Type A Port - BVN650M1 | APC USA

BVN650M1 - APC Back UPS, 650VA/360W, Floor/Wall Mount 120V, 7x NEMA 5-15R outlets, USB Type A Port | APC USA

www.apc.com

They are rated at 65Hz switchover frequency.

My main concern is the batteries are only going to last a few years even though they will only be operating for milliseconds during Powerwall switchover. Then the units will start beeping until I turn them off or replace the batteries. It seems like there would be a better solution for surviving the switchover to the Powerwalls.

 

[jrweiss98020]

It's possible that in both cases, the Powerwalls are exceeding the 65 Hz threshold for the UPSs, so they trip. They don't reset because the line frequency is so close to the threshold. Manually resetting them may invoke a different routine, so the line frequency (maybe stable at 64.9 Hz?) is seen as within limits.

IMO, you should get a UPS that switches over at 63 Hz, since that is the tested tolerance of a computer power supply per the ATX design guide and EPS12V spec. Then decide whether you want to continue with the 65 Hz freq shift, or ask Tesla to reduce it to 62.5.

 

[gpez]

It's possible that in both cases, the Powerwalls are exceeding the 65 Hz threshold for the UPSs, so they trip. They don't reset because the line frequency is so close to the threshold. Manually resetting them may invoke a different routine, so the line frequency (maybe stable at 64.9 Hz?) is seen as within limits.

IMO, you should get a UPS that switches over at 63 Hz, since that is the tested tolerance of a computer power supply per the ATX design guide and EPS12V spec. Then decide whether you want to continue with the 65 Hz freq shift, or ask Tesla to reduce it to 62.5.

This would be my guess too. Checking if the Powerwall is set to 65hz is easy enough through the API.

 

[jrweiss98020]

Yes, but getting Tesla to change it is a LOT harder!

 

[gpez]

Yes, but getting Tesla to change it is a LOT harder!

My experience was pretty straightforward - called, escalated to T2, explained in two sentences the problem and the ask, ticket filed, changed within a few days.