Upset at Major Headliner Issue - Anyone notice this? (resolved)

[shokunin]

Alcantara is definitely not cheap, $100+ per yard. However, I'm quite sure Tesla could get a much better deal than that. I don't have the pano roof, so my P85 has a huge alcantara headliner. Seems like a cheap way to be penny pinching.

Most P85's I've seen on the road have the pano roof, so it's not like they are using a huge amount of fabric. If anything, they should have just added this as another option and have people who order after the switch-a-roo date to opt for it or not on the Performance version.

While the Alcantara is nice, I don't think the cloth version is all that cheap. Heck, I had sit in my other cars and look up at the roof to see what kind of fabric they had. I've been driving the other cars for years and had no clue what the headliner was made of. :redface:

 

[yobigd20]

Just as a point of reference, I picked my car up March 6th and I have the alcantara headliner. Though I'm out on the east cost, so technically my car was done building a week prior to that. This change must have happening sometime during the first week or two of March.

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This is very poor form on Tesla's part. Much much worse than carrerascott getting plastic inserts instead of chrome ones in the rear hatch area (did that ever get resolved, Scott?!)

Wonder if some maverick at the factory made this call coz' I can't imagine GeorgeB and the like ever approving something like this. Hope this gets addressed soon; it'll be messy and painful to have to replace it outside the factory.

Here's how my cloth headliner looks (I have a lot of it given no pano roof); I'm happy with it but, there's no reason for someone who paid a pretty penny for the Perf to 'live with it':

View attachment 19161

View attachment 19162

WOW...I had no idea that's what the 'cloth' interior looked like. This is shocking!! I agree, the cloth looks VERY cheap and should *not* be on the P85 (or any other Model S IMO honestly). I would not let up on this issue if I were you.

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You paid for it. You should get it:

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hmmm...I see it says 'Alcantara accents', but that could just be for the seats. Does it actually say 'Alcantara headliner' anywhere on their website or official documentation? I can't seem to find any.

 

[Panacea]

>>To me, the alcantara was a HUGE selling point for the P85.<< I AGREE - that's the ONLY reason why I spent the extra money. The fabric headliner seemd VERY CHEAP LOOKING and when you spend over $100K you don't want CHEAP. I didn't really care about the stronger motor......1 Second is not a big deal for me. The interior was my main focus.

It seems like Tesla is feeling the pressure of GROSS MARGINS. It makes no sense for them to change the interior unless they are having supplier issues and if that's the case they should have informed reservation holders. My arrived at the end of Feb. and it has the Alcantara.

+1
That is exactly what motivated me to get the P85. I am very disappointed. I hope TM remedies the situation immediately. This is not the buying experience I imagined when I finalized my order in Feb.

 

[jkirkebo]

+1
That is exactly what motivated me to get the P85. I am very disappointed. I hope TM remedies the situation immediately. This is not the buying experience I imagined when I finalized my order in Feb.

Same here, the interior upgrade is what's pushing me towards the P85. If the headliner must be an separate upgrade, so be it. I'll pay up to $1000 extra for it if I have to. Please make that available for the EU cars...

I'm getting a "short end of the stick" vibe for us who have reserved an european P85. No grey 21" wheels included and now we don't get an alcantara headliner either?

Getting on the sig waiting list is not an option for me since I want blue/grey.

 

[Al Sherman]

Not to rub salt in the wound. Just as a point of reference. I took delivery on March 12th and DO have the full Alcantara. As another point of reference FWIW, I'm usually extremely accepting, and calm. I can see how I would be VERY annoyed if my car just showed up with the cloth headliner. If it's not a mistake, it's just not OK.

 

[ElSupreme]

I can see why you are upset about getting a headliner different than what you expected. And yes I think it was somewhat crappy of Tesla to change something so visible without giving people a heads up. But think about these questions before you get all judgmental.

Should Tesla contact all their reservation holders every time they make a change to how the car is made? Every time a part is changed? What if they start using a different LED bulb in the overhead lighting? What if they start using a different Velcro to hold down the mats. What if they change the thread in the seats that they are sewing? What about if they change the color of the foam in their seats? How about change the molding of a plastic part, such that it comes out of the mold easier?

Tesla can't tell you about all the changes they make. Sure something as visible as a headliner will be noticed. And perhaps should have been communicated.

But what if they stopped using the Alcantara headliner for another reason. Perhaps their supplier told them the price was going up, and their commitment was over with. Perhaps the supplier was having problems making the headliners and told Tesla they wouldn't make them any more. Maybe there were quality issues with the headliners and Tesla decided they didn't meet a quality requirement. Perhaps they saw some issues with premature wear of the headliners, and they started to sag. And Tesla decided having a 'cheap' headliner would be better than having a droopy headliner. Maybe the Alcantara was shedding and getting small microfibers all over the dash and screens, and Tesla decided it wasn't acceptable.

Maybe Tesla made the car HIGHER (by some other non-aesthetic measure) quality by removing the headliner?

Also I have never seen any writing that says that you will get an Alcantara headliner. And I don't think anyone else on the forum is claiming to see such language. I would hardly call a headliner an 'accent' piece.

A lot of this problem is coming from Tesla's sales model. You order, and get what you get. Versus you looking on a lot, and getting what you touched. I know that buying something online is different than buying something at the store. I accept some of the risks. I will NEVER buy shoes online for this reason. I have bought one pair of shoes online in the past decade, because I couldn't find a store in Atlanta that sold the boots I was looking for. They were exactly the same as my previous work steel toe boots. But they weren't. The laces were different, and much crappier. The eyelets were different, can't really tell if they were better/worse but they were different. And well the tongue was sewn all messed up in my left boot. It still won't stay behind the laces after over 1 year of wear. Part of the deal with buying online. I won't do it again, because I am VERY particular about my shoes. I am not so much with my car.

 

[montgom626]

Hello all! I've posted this on the Tesla website forums but was recommended to try this site as well. So here is my post:
.

Breach of contract, get an attorney.

 

[joer00]

Sorry, your arguments do not count ! You cannot advertise one thing and than sell another, I agree to the breach of contract ! What would you say if your leather seats now come with leather immitation ? It's the same thing !

I think I am lucky that I got one of the last cars with Alcantra on March 18th. If I would have gotton the cheap stuff, I would not have accepted this. I am not a lawyer, but common sense tells me that Tesla can change anything if it is SIMILAR or equal quality, not just cheaper stuff.

Joe

I can see why you are upset about getting a headliner different than what you expected. And yes I think it was somewhat crappy of Tesla to change something so visible without giving people a heads up. But think about these questions before you get all judgmental.

Should Tesla contact all their reservation holders every time they make a change to how the car is made? Every time a part is changed? What if they start using a different LED bulb in the overhead lighting? What if they start using a different Velcro to hold down the mats. What if they change the thread in the seats that they are sewing? What about if they change the color of the foam in their seats? How about change the molding of a plastic part, such that it comes out of the mold easier?

Tesla can't tell you about all the changes they make. Sure something as visible as a headliner will be noticed. And perhaps should have been communicated.

But what if they stopped using the Alcantara headliner for another reason. Perhaps their supplier told them the price was going up, and their commitment was over with. Perhaps the supplier was having problems making the headliners and told Tesla they wouldn't make them any more. Maybe there were quality issues with the headliners and Tesla decided they didn't meet a quality requirement. Perhaps they saw some issues with premature wear of the headliners, and they started to sag. And Tesla decided having a 'cheap' headliner would be better than having a droopy headliner. Maybe the Alcantara was shedding and getting small microfibers all over the dash and screens, and Tesla decided it wasn't acceptable.

Maybe Tesla made the car HIGHER (by some other non-aesthetic measure) quality by removing the headliner?

Also I have never seen any writing that says that you will get an Alcantara headliner. And I don't think anyone else on the forum is claiming to see such language. I would hardly call a headliner an 'accent' piece.

A lot of this problem is coming from Tesla's sales model. You order, and get what you get. Versus you looking on a lot, and getting what you touched. I know that buying something online is different than buying something at the store. I accept some of the risks. I will NEVER buy shoes online for this reason. I have bought one pair of shoes online in the past decade, because I couldn't find a store in Atlanta that sold the boots I was looking for. They were exactly the same as my previous work steel toe boots. But they weren't. The laces were different, and much crappier. The eyelets were different, can't really tell if they were better/worse but they were different. And well the tongue was sewn all messed up in my left boot. It still won't stay behind the laces after over 1 year of wear. Part of the deal with buying online. I won't do it again, because I am VERY particular about my shoes. I am not so much with my car.

 

[Kaivball]

I can see why you are upset about getting a headliner different than what you expected. And yes I think it was somewhat crappy of Tesla to change something so visible without giving people a heads up. But think about these questions before you get all judgmental.

Should Tesla contact all their reservation holders every time they make a change to how the car is made? Every time a part is changed? What if they start using a different LED bulb in the overhead lighting? What if they start using a different Velcro to hold down the mats. What if they change the thread in the seats that they are sewing? What about if they change the color of the foam in their seats? How about change the molding of a plastic part, such that it comes out of the mold easier?

Tesla can't tell you about all the changes they make. Sure something as visible as a headliner will be noticed. And perhaps should have been communicated.

But what if they stopped using the Alcantara headliner for another reason. Perhaps their supplier told them the price was going up, and their commitment was over with. Perhaps the supplier was having problems making the headliners and told Tesla they wouldn't make them any more. Maybe there were quality issues with the headliners and Tesla decided they didn't meet a quality requirement. Perhaps they saw some issues with premature wear of the headliners, and they started to sag. And Tesla decided having a 'cheap' headliner would be better than having a droopy headliner. Maybe the Alcantara was shedding and getting small microfibers all over the dash and screens, and Tesla decided it wasn't acceptable.

Maybe Tesla made the car HIGHER (by some other non-aesthetic measure) quality by removing the headliner?

Also I have never seen any writing that says that you will get an Alcantara headliner. And I don't think anyone else on the forum is claiming to see such language. I would hardly call a headliner an 'accent' piece.

A lot of this problem is coming from Tesla's sales model. You order, and get what you get. Versus you looking on a lot, and getting what you touched. I know that buying something online is different than buying something at the store. I accept some of the risks. I will NEVER buy shoes online for this reason. I have bought one pair of shoes online in the past decade, because I couldn't find a store in Atlanta that sold the boots I was looking for. They were exactly the same as my previous work steel toe boots. But they weren't. The laces were different, and much crappier. The eyelets were different, can't really tell if they were better/worse but they were different. And well the tongue was sewn all messed up in my left boot. It still won't stay behind the laces after over 1 year of wear. Part of the deal with buying online. I won't do it again, because I am VERY particular about my shoes. I am not so much with my car.

I call this "in writing"

 

[ckessel]

Should Tesla contact all their reservation holders every time they make a change to how the car is made?

If affects something visual or performance, then yes.

People don't get to buy the car they look at with Tesla, unlike a traditional dealership. If the car they look at (or pictures of it online) does not match what they receive, they'll feel justifiably a victim of some level of bait and switch. Tesla's disclaimer about changes may occur only goes so far. If I were on the parking lot and said, "yea, I want this car!", then the dealer pulled out another to give me that didn't have the same leather interior I'd refuse it on the spot.

If Tesla isn't going to go the dealer route and sell the car on the lot, then they need to be extra attentive in delivering what the customer does get to see. If Tesla has a change to make, such as the alcantra, they should deliver as it was for everyone locked in, then notify anyone of the change with a non-locked reservation.

They should also include a list of visible changes attached to showroom cars with a generic statement like "We are constantly updating our car and you should be aware that this showroom car differs from the production car in the following ways."

Other choices by Tesla I may not have agreed with, but they were published and things hashed out before cars were shipped (e.g. supercharger costs, etc). And in those cases, some folks got grandfathered in. In this case, Tesla did not deliver the car that was reasonably expected, a change that may very well have impacted someone's choice when they locked in. I know I was really on the perf bubble and the interior was part of the appeal.

 

[pete8314]

OK, so I had a proper hunt. Tesla had posted on their 'Bulletin Board' here, but the link no longer exists. This was at the time where they were explaining the reason for the price hike for the 2013 models.

The wording was:

WHY ISN'T THERE A CREDIT FOR 19" WHEELS IN THE PERFORMANCE PACKAGE?
[email protected] | NOVEMBER 24, 2012
The Performance Package was priced assuming a 19" wheel. Here is how we arrived at Performance pricing:

Base 85 kWh Model S $77,400
Performance Drive Unit $10,000
Upgraded Interior and Treatments $3,500
Active Air Suspension $1,500
Total $92,400
The $10,000 Performance Drive unit includes upgraded drive components, hardware and software.

The $3,500 Upgraded Interior includes all items in the $1,500 Nappa Leather Interior package, plus an Alcantara headliner ($1,900 on a Porsche Panamera), additional leather treatments and Alcantara seat bolsters ($600), Carbon Fiber décor option ($500 on Audi S7), and contrast color piping on seats ($200). This package rolls up to between $4,200 and $4,700 (depending upon if you choose the Carbon Fiber Décor on not), but was included in the Performance Package at $3,500.

The $92,400 price assumed a 19" wheel. However, we wanted our very early reservation holders to have the option to choose their favorite wheel as part of the Performance Package at no additional cost.

I've highlighted the relevant section - these are Tesla Motors' words, looks black and white to me. Shame they took the link down, but I'm sure there's a cached version out there somewhere. Either way, there it is, in writing.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Kaivball,

Where does that say headliner?

Edit: Nice find Pete!

 

[jerry33]

I call this "in writing"

View attachment 19189

It would be in writing if they said "Nappa leather and Alcantara interior" or "Nappa leather interior with all Alcantara accents". I agree that this was a change (from the beta models) that they should have communicated about. (I have an S85, so no dogs in this fight.)

 

[rlpm]

I call this "in writing"

Included Upgrades
Nappa leather interior with Alcantara accents and available carbon fiber décor

To me, "accents" doesn't necessarily include headliner. Is there anywhere on their website that explicitly states that the Alcantara headliner is included for non-sig P85s?

Don't get me wrong. I am irked by this change, as my P85 will very likely be affected (but I won't know for sure until it gets here next week). Would Alcantara be nicer than cloth? Sure. Are there plenty of non-sig P85 owners that have Alcantara? Yes. Was it a bit disingenuous that they changed it without informing locked-in customers? Yes. Will the car be any less usable without it? No. Will the car be better without it? Possibly, depending on why they made the change.

So I guess the only thing that irks me is that they didn't tell locked-in customers about it. Sigh.

Edit Good find, Pete. I do remember reading that page. I certainly hope removing it wasn't CYA due to this thread. That would increase my opinion to them being more than "a bit" disingenuous. Double sigh.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Dark dog hair sticks to the Alcantara headliner if that makes any difference to anyone. not sure about the 'standard' headliner though
woof.

 

[markb1]

Good find, Pete. I do remember reading that page. I certainly hope removing it wasn't CYA due to this thread. That would increase my opinion to them being more than "a bit" disingenuous. Double sigh.

I presume they removed it because the question at the top of the bulletin board post is no longer relevant. 21" wheels now cost extra for the P85 under the 2013 pricing.

Anyway, has anyone sent an email to GeorgeB to see if there's an official response?

 

[wstuff]

I understand your concern if the headliner is one of the reasons you bought the car. I just took some pictures of my ORDINARY headliner and I have to say ( personal preference only) I like the look of the regular cloth liner, the Alacantara looks like a material you would put in a cheaper car to try and richen it up but fails miserably because it doesn't flow with anything else in the car. I am going to an event the end of April where I will have the opportunity to see several performance models and I will pay attention to the headliner. This is only my personal preference but I love the interior of the S, simple and minimalist that goes with the lack of switches and buttons. To the person who said they want a button for the pano roof , it is on the steering wheel. I never liked the two tone effect of a dark interior with a very light headliner. I'm not saying you should not try to resolve this, it was listed as one of the benefits of the performance edition and you should get what you pay for, as Tesla made the decision to delete that prepaid option I think they should allow a reasonable discount for the lack of the feature. I love the slight texture of the cloth headliner , the Alacantara looks like a Velour coverup, hope I don't ruffle too many feathers, just an honest personal opinion from pictures posted.

 

[gobagheera]

Here is my P85 delivered 3/26 with the cloth headliner. It might be personal preference for some people, but I personally wanted and expected the alcantara headliner in the performance.

 

[Kaivball]

Here is my P85 delivered 3/26 with the cloth headliner. It might be personal preference for some people, but I personally wanted and expected the alcantara headliner in the performance.

View attachment 19205View attachment 19206View attachment 19207

That's the issue.

This is a very visible item.

Alcantara is always treated as an upgrade over cloth. Always.

Look at the Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, etc spec sheet.

Alcantara is an upgrade.

If you test drive a car with Alcantara, then you have a built in expectation that you get this.

I would certainly disappointed if that had happened to me. VIN 6662 still has Alcantara.

 

[ElSupreme]

Sorry, your arguments do not count ! You cannot advertise one thing and than sell another, I agree to the breach of contract ! What would you say if your leather seats now come with leather immitation ? It's the same thing !

How do my arguments not count. Besides I don't know anywhere they are advertising and Alcantara headliner. Pete's finding is based on the increased cost reserevd in 2013 Model S. So if you reserved in 2013 and paid a higher price you might have a legitimate legal gripe. If he has a contract stating an Alcantara headliner then you would be correct.

I call this "in writing"

View attachment 19189

How is the largest single piece of fabric in the car an 'accent' piece. I would say it is a main piece.