URGENT help needed: Significantly reduced range on a P90DL - should I take delivery?

[iqless]

Upon INSISTING to learn the range at 100% charge of the P90DL I was going to be picking up (after flying to Baltimore) this Saturday, I finally got a sales advisor to go to the lot, look for my car, and tell me what he saw:

245 miles at 99%.

So at best 247-248 on a 100%. This car is from 2015, and has 41,000 miles. Considering it should have been about 270 miles to begin with, this represents just shy of 10% degradation on this, which is I think quite a bit more than average.

I'd heard earlier 90kWh packs had many problems of which rapid degradation was one. Maybe this is that?

I'd love to hear what you guys think of this - should I take delivery, or roll the dice on another P90DL, or get a P85D instead (apparently way better battery packs). I don't take trips all that often to need a huge battery but I also don't want to spend $60,000 on a car and get a badly degraded one.

Or am I completely wrong in that this is a bad amount of degradation, and is this normal?

Thank you!

 

[Ostrichsak]

That sounds about right. Most used cars will see about a 10% (+/-2%) degradation in the 40-100k mole range. I think you're overreacting slightly but the whole degradation thing has been blown out of proportion largely IMHO so it's not entirely your fault. If the car is solid otherwise & I liked the price I wouldn't let that be a deal breaker but that's me personally.

 

[Cheburashka]

Seems like fine degradation.

 

[iqless]

Interesting, I really thought the average for 40k miles was about 5%, which would make this car double the average amt of degradation.

I think I am probably spoiled by my 85D which still has about 256 after almost 60k miles.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Interesting, I really thought the average for 40k miles was about 5%, which would make this car double the average amt of degradation.

I think I am probably spoiled by my 85D which still has about 256 after almost 60k miles.

From what I've seen you can expect the largest drop-off in the first 10-20k miles of about 5% with it then it tapers off pretty dramatically. Most of the cars I see are in that 10% +/-2% range and that goes for cars over 100k miles too.

 

[maximizese]

It depends on how you're going to use the car. There are some folks who drive no more than 120 miles per week and there are others who are driving 120 miles each day. I'd say the only times I wish I had more than 250 miles of range is during a road-trip. I find myself driving for 2 hours, then pulling over to rest/eat/charge for 40 minutes. I'm looking forward to the new 370 range mile Model S where the driving to charging ratio will likely be 3hrs to 40min. However, during the work week the car could have just 150 miles of range and it would make no difference for us.

So my questions are:

1) How many miles do you plan to drive in a day or week?

2) Do you plan on taking road trips with it?

3) Do you plan on upgrading to a longer range Tesla in the next 3-5 years?

 

[P85_DA]

What version pack this have V1?

Personally wouldn’t take if it had V1 pack

 

[iqless]

It depends on how you're going to use the car. There are some folks who drive no more than 120 miles per week and there are others who are driving 120 miles each day. I'd say the only times I wish I had more than 250 miles of range is during a road-trip. I find myself driving for 2 hours, then pulling over to rest/eat/charge for 40 minutes. I'm looking forward to the new 370 range mile Model S where the driving to charging ratio will likely be 3hrs to 40min. However, during the work week the car could have just 150 miles of range and it would make no difference for us.

So my questions are:

1) How many miles do you plan to drive in a day or week?

2) Do you plan on taking road trips with it?

3) Do you plan on upgrading to a longer range Tesla in the next 3-5 years?

1) I don't have a commute, so I don't really drive that much apart from making a 20-30 mile trip about every weekend.
2) Yes :| I've taken plenty with my 85D which I believe still has like 260 miles.
3) Potentially, yeah.

My concern is not solely about range but also about the battery quality. If there's something wrong and it is going to continue to degrade, that's going to be a problem, not to mention decreasing resale value significantly.

 

[maximizese]

1) I don't have a commute, so I don't really drive that much apart from making a 20-30 mile trip about every weekend.
2) Yes :| I've taken plenty with my 85D which I believe still has like 260 miles.
3) Potentially, yeah.

My concern is not solely about range but also about the battery quality. If there's something wrong and it is going to continue to degrade, that's going to be a problem, not to mention decreasing resale value significantly.

In that case, I would probably take a pass. I would expect a P90DL to have more range than your presumably older 85D. From what I've read, folks have had better luck with the 85 and 100 battery packs compared to the 90 in terms of degradation. Perhaps a P100D is in the cards?

 

[mswlogo]

I think you need to be careful of using a "single" reading of the battery to judge as well.

I think you'd need to go through a couple wide charge cycles to see what it really is, or see some sort of trend history.

What kind of battery warranty will come with it should also be a factor.

 

[iqless]

P90DL and 85D have the same rated range originally - I guess the problems with the 90kWh battery + P's being driven harder contributes to faster degradation.

If P100D's were in the $7x,xxx range, I'd definitely get that, but even the cheapest ones are around $85K, and those also have AP1. AP2 and AP2.5 ones are still like $95k. That being said my P90DL is AP1 too, but paying $25k more for a slight speed and modest range upgrade doesn't sound like what I wanna do unless I could also potentially get the new autopilot.

 

[P85_DA]

P90DL and 85D have the same rated range originally - I guess the problems with the 90kWh battery + P's being driven harder contributes to faster degradation.

If P100D's were in the $7x,xxx range, I'd definitely get that, but even the cheapest ones are around $85K, and those also have AP1. AP2 and AP2.5 ones are still like $95k. That being said my P90DL is AP1 too, but paying $25k more for a slight speed and modest range upgrade doesn't sound like what I wanna do unless I could also potentially get the new autopilot.

2015 good chance V1 pack ..I would pass ..and wait for something better

 

[iqless]

I think you need to be careful of using a "single" reading of the battery to judge as well.

I think you'd need to go through a couple wide charge cycles to see what it really is, or see some sort of trend history.

What kind of battery warranty will come with it should also be a factor.

It comes with a very long battery warranty like all new/used Teslas, but Tesla doesn't replace batteries for range degradation.

Also, someone in the other thread did indeed point out that the 10% range decrease in this car is indeed DOUBLE what would be expected in a car with 41k miles (5%)

 

[AMPd]

My P90D shows 246 miles at 100%

 

[iqless]

My P90D shows 246 miles at 100%

Thanks for letting me know! Is it an earlier model like 2015? Do you know which version battery you have? And can you tell me how many miles you have on the car?

 

[BPeter]

P90DL and 85D have the same rated range originally - I guess the problems with the 90kWh battery + P's being driven harder contributes to faster degradation.

If P100D's were in the $7x,xxx range, I'd definitely get that, but even the cheapest ones are around $85K, and those also have AP1. AP2 and AP2.5 ones are still like $95k. That being said my P90DL is AP1 too, but paying $25k more for a slight speed and modest range upgrade doesn't sound like what I wanna do unless I could also potentially get the new autopilot.

There's a guy on TMC selling a P100D AP2.0 for $79K OBO

2016 Model S P100D for sale 79,000 OBO

Body color roof though, didn't even know that was an option for the P100D

 

[MP3Mike]

General rule of thumb I have heard is ~5% degradation in the first year and ~1% each year after that. So for a 2015 you should be looking at about ~8% degradation. So it is a little higher than the rule of thumb but not horrible.

 

[AMPd]

Thanks for letting me know! Is it an earlier model like 2015? Do you know which version battery you have? And can you tell me how many miles you have on the car?

Yes it’s a 2015
Not sure what battery version I have
65k Miles

 

[ASMills85]

My P85D was showing 247 at 40k miles when I bought it. I’d personally pass, but I don’t know if it is necessarily outside of the acceptable degradation. I wouldn’t be so much worried about where it is now, I’d be more worried about what it means for the future.

 

[Nick B]

Most people who are buying a P90D aren't buying it for range but for performance. Sure range is important but not the most important aspect. I don't think you will have problems selling it later on. If everything else is ok I'd say go for it!