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Urgent Question: Model 3 Range

Discussion in 'Model 3: Driving Dynamics' started by CM3SRPlus, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. CM3SRPlus

    CM3SRPlus New Member

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    Location:
    Palo Alto, CA
    I took delivery of a Model 3 last week, so I still have one more day to return the vehicle. I want to determine if I got a lemon -- the range of the car has been about 10% less than expectations, based on the Teslike chart. Here's the bottom line: Driving 68mph in good conditions, I got 17.6% less range than the EPA rating, which is more than the 8% hit I was expecting based on the Teslike chart. My questions are: Is this normal? Is the Teslike chart accurate? Is there a breaking in period? Is it possible I got a dud?

    I'd really appreciate any help, since I have to make a decision soon.

    Here are my details:

    Model 3 Standard Range Plus
    19" Tires
    Car condition: New, about 540 miles on it so far
    Trip length: 99.8 miles
    Average Speed: 68mph (I set the AP to 68 for the first 70 miles, then set it to 70 mph for the rest. There was also a 2 mile stretch of heavy traffic, which brings the average back down to 68.)
    Charge Used: 121 miles (started at 195, finished at 74)
    Wh/mi: 253
    Weather: 60 - 65 degrees
    Elevation: Relatively flat for most of the trip
    AC/Heating: None

    I've taken a few other long trips with this car, but it's hard to determine the efficiency because the terrain was hilly, and my speed varied. That said, when I did calculations during those trips, my range was about 24% below EPA, and my average speed was around 70 to 75 mph (these were 70mph zones).

    Thanks again for your help with this.
     
  2. SubSolar

    SubSolar Member

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    I've had three Teslas and have never get close to the rated range on any. I typically expect to get 75 to 85% of what it says. I drive 5 MPH more than speed limit, autopilot always when on freeways, southern California weather. I don't think you can get the rated range unless you drive 60 MPH, perfect weather, no hills perfectly flat, no AC or heater, no headwind.
     
  3. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    It can be hard to understand just how to relate the EPA number to what to expect in real life, but it is almost always optimistic compared to the way people actually drive.
    J1634: Battery Electric Vehicle Energy Consumption and Range Test Procedure - SAE International
    https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/EPA%20test%20procedure%20for%20EVs-PHEVs-11-14-2017.pdf

    Do you think there could have been a headwind during your recent 99.8 mile trip?

    At 253Wh/mi I don’t think there is anything wrong with your car.
     
    • Like x 1
  4. jmaddr

    jmaddr Member

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    Look at the energy graph during driving. If your average is above the dotted reference line, you are getting worse mileage. If it's below...better. Only time you will get reference range (EPA stated) is when you are at the reference line for the full tank. That's like 55 mph on rollers (so no wind, uphill/downhill, curves, etc). It's very similar to the way they measure gas mpg.
     
  5. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of variables that you aren’t controlling. A small amount of wind or slight elevation change can give the sort of offset you’re describing.

    I don’t think there’s much variation in actual efficiency in identical conditions from car to car for a given model.

    It’s much more likely that some other variable is responsible for your test result than that you got a car that’s simply less efficient than others of its type.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. Thunder7ga

    Thunder7ga Member

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    It's all about how efficient you can drive and keep it in that "sweet spot", but you REALLY have to baby it to get to that 241 average wh/mi. The 19" wheels are working against you too, they are about 20-25 wh/mi less efficient than the 18" Aeros (on average). In real-world terms, it isn't that big of a deal for 99% of most peoples driving. The car has a ton of range regardless.
     
  7. mreynolds767

    mreynolds767 Member

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    I will say on my gasoline cars I always got within the EPA range. (I know most don't but I have had well powered V6 engines for highway cruising and drive mostly highway)

    In my EV I do not (the fact I drive mostly highway and exceed the speed limit is the reason)
     
  8. N5329K

    N5329K Active Member

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    This seems spot on to me.
    Robin
     
  9. camalaio

    camalaio Active Member

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    You're close enough to the rated Wh/mi (I think it's 257). Even then, few drivers and few conditions lead to attaining the EPA rating whether it's an EV or a gas vehicle. Driving style, wind, road surface, etc. all play a role.

    It's important to also measure round-trip on the same route versus any one-way trip (not sure what you did for these numbers).

    You're probably fine, wouldn't worry about it.
     
  10. Needsdecaf

    Needsdecaf Member

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    Agreed, 253 Wh / mile at 65 MPH sounds pretty fair.
     
  11. Incredulocious

    Incredulocious LEAF → RAV4EV → Model 3 → Model Y

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    #11 Incredulocious, Oct 2, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
    I usually do better than rated range in my Model 3 “Stealth” Peformance (or “P3D-“) and I certainly don’t hold to 60 mph. Meanwhile, my girlfriend never gets anywhere near rated range in her non-performance Model 3 AWD. (We both have the aero wheels.) The same difference in efficiency/range between us was true with our previous RAV4 EV’s. While higher speeds certainly matter a lot due to wind resistance, what also matters is whether you constantly throw away energy with unnecessary changes in speed (speeding up to only have to slow down again). My girlfriend is notorious for this, constantly accelerating a little too much for what is in front of her (other cars, changing conditions, curves, etc), following other cars too closely, frequently having to slow down again and again. It’s annoying enough that I usually insist on driving when we’re together.

    Anyway, yes, you can get rated range or better even at highway speeds if you avoid throwing away energy because you’re following somebody too close or accelerating too much for the traffic conditions, and having to slow down unnecessarily, etc.

    I should add that autopilot isn’t the greatest at doing this (driving efficiently) but I do often make use of it anyway on long, multi-hour freeway stretches.

    To the original poster, it doesn’t sound like anything is wrong with your car. You’re doing pretty average and you can do better if you want to, but I wouldn’t worry about feeling you have a dud. (Be aware though that you are taking a little hit with the 19” wheels.)
     
    • Informative x 2
  12. Incredulocious

    Incredulocious LEAF → RAV4EV → Model 3 → Model Y

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    Yeah, normal. Here's a graph of Model 3 users using the "Stats for Tesla" app – you're right in the middle of the distribution:

    [​IMG]

    I was sitting at 120% earlier a couple months ago, probably due to a lot of lower speed driving (40 mph roads) in the Tahoe area.
     
  13. MTSN

    MTSN Member

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    If you want to get better range, try the 18" aeros instead. I've averaged 230 Wh/mi in my P3D- over 1,800 miles. I use it for commuting on the highway about 50 miles per day, and that almost always includes about 15 miles of stop and go traffic. I don't baby it at all, and that includes a few trips to the drag strip as well.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. CM3SRPlus

    CM3SRPlus New Member

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    Thank you all for your replies so far! This is really helpful. It's good to know that I'm somewhere in the average range of efficiency. Based on your responses then, is it safe to say that the Teslike graph is overly optimistic for most drivers?

    Also, to answer the questions posed: I do not know if there was a headwind during the drive. I also did not go roundtrip, which I agree would be helpful in controlling for changes in elevation. I knew the wheels would hurt the range, but I thought the Teslike graph accounted for that, so I was surprised I didn't get close to the chart.

    And to Incredulocious's point, I did occasionally change lanes and pass slower cars, which involved brief changes in speed. I didn't realize that would have a significant impact on the range, considering some of that energy is recouped through regen. But that is a helpful tip, and I'll be sure to use it when I need to extend range.
     
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  15. AdamVIP

    AdamVIP Member

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    Ugg so I looked into it a bit as I'm at like 290 lifetime and 250 will be pretty much unachievable and it seems EPA numbers are based around the 230-240 range. Dont think Ill ever get there.
     
  16. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Good point, I missed that.

    The EPA numbers for the Standard Range are based on 18” wheels. That is likely the explanation for what the OP is seeing.
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Like x 1
  17. garth_angst

    garth_angst Member

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    long island
    I always get over the rated miles on my LR AWD. I charge from 20% (about 60 miles) to 80% (248 miles). I always get over 190 miles range for the charge.
    My average Wh/Mile over 4000 miles is 209. I am on Long Island, where there is no speed limit over 55MPH. I top out at 65MPH to keep the police at bay.
     
  18. SubSolar

    SubSolar Member

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    294 lifetime myself in 3 Performance, 333 in my old Model S 85D and 420 in Model X 75D. I wouldn't change driving habits and too much for a little more efficiency, just have fun! These things cost much less to drive than ICE vehicles anyway.
     
  19. skatefriday

    skatefriday Member

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    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I think the real question is what is your battery capacity?

    On my 4 day old car, I top out at 213 miles at 90%. At a 240 mile range, I should be at 216 miles. It's annoying that I'm missing that 1.4% of battery capacity on a brand new battery, but I don't think the people at the service center are going to have much sympathy.

    Consumption of that capacity is an entirely different matter that depends largely upon how, when, and under what conditions you drive it. Drive downhill both ways and you'll get fantastic Wh numbers. :)
     
  20. Incredulocious

    Incredulocious LEAF → RAV4EV → Model 3 → Model Y

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    Occasionally accelerating to pass slower cars wasn’t what I was thinking about and shouldn’t add up to too much if it’s really just occasional. I was trying to describe how some folk tend to frequently and unwittingly push the throttle a little too much and then have to slow down a little again and again, every minute or even every few seconds – like a college friend of mine would do, not even aware he was constantly doing it when I asked him to please stop. You ecen sometimes see folks who are so heavy on the throttle that they keep having to tap their brakes to adjust their speed while driving a highway!
     

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