Urgent: X90D to X100D order change problem, help needed.

[TechVP]

To comment on the --has been hashed out to death' comment...
The original poster indicated that he did escalate it to Fremont. This is a worthy topic.

In my opinion, I think many of us simply rolled over -- taking either what they ordered, or agreeing to go along w/ the price book result to obtain the 100D.

I, for one, would like to hear the resulting follow up to the escalation.

 

[Bet TSLA]

I, for one, would like to hear the resulting follow up to the escalation.

At least one person here has commented that they were in touch with (unnamed) people at the highest levels of Tesla. The answer was unequivocally that the way they did things was the way they intended and it wasn't going to change. I agree that enough complaining by enough people might have swayed them had it happened immediately, but there's really no way to go back now.

And seriously, the whole thing just isn't that big a deal. Various showroom guys said how they expected things to go and they were wrong. People who took that as a likelihood (like me) or a certainty (like apparently many) were disappointed. But the showroom guys can always be mistaken, because how things work is subject to change, and the decision comes from higher up; we all know that. So we can never be certain. All we know is what we ordered and what price it was, and that we'll get that (or better) when it's delivered.

But strictly from a money perspective this change is clearly a win -- only $3K to improve EPA range from 294 to 335, almost 14%! I expected it to be $10K, or at least $8K. So by my estimation it's an immediate savings of at least $5K for a loss of free supercharging, worth at most a few hundred dollars a year to a few people. Giving up ventilated seats might be an issue for a few too, but it's still their choice.

Now, me, I wanted free supercharging for other than monetary reasons so It's not a win and I cancelled my order. But I would think most people would be happy with their original order, or be happy with the improvement. Anybody who is inconsolable over this will be very unhappy as soon as they perceive their car as being undeniably obsolete. That will happen to every Tesla vehicle rather quickly for the foreseeable future. Get used to disappointment.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Anybody who is inconsolable over this will be very unhappy as soon as they perceive their car as being undeniably obsolete. That will happen to every Tesla vehicle rather quickly for the foreseeable future. Get used to disappointment.

Agreed, anybody who wants to have the latest and greatest for any significant period of time can not really buy a Tesla if the current policy persists. The likelihood of the product being superceded by the next version, or even versions, before you even get your car or very quickly afterwards is significantly higher than with any other car on the market.

That is something that one must factor in. I still wish Tesla would do a bit more pacing and grouping though. It might be wise. The AP1/P85D/85D was an example of successful grouping IMO. Had they done the same for AP2/P100D/100D (and maybe offered FUSC for that for a while), that would been a clearer buying opportunty for those who wish to buy/upgrade at clearly defined breakpoints. Doing it piecemeal (even more so when facelift etc. are factored in) makes things harder for the customers.

As it stands, Tesla doesn't really have any kind of such buying opportunities for that audience, which can lead to constant Osborning in the minds of some people. Why buy now when waiting a quarter will bring tangible benefits... and then the next quarter... and the next... Definitely those who already have a Tesla have been seen, at least somewhat, as decreasing their interest in upgrades. They can afford to wait - and this encourages them to wait.

Anecdotally, with the AP1/P85D/85D we saw tons more existing Tesla owners upgrading than now that people know every quarter brings major changes, sometimes even many times a quarter. (In 2012-2014 the changes that did come ever so often were, in the end, small aside from AP1/P85D/85D.)

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Free Supercharging is overrated, unless you're planning on constant long-distance driving.

Remember, you leave your house with a full "tank" every day, and with your new Tesla roof, that "tank" is likely to be filled for free.

I'd go for the 100D as the range delta is large relative to the cost delta.

But, frankly, either outcome is pretty decent as the 90 may meet your needs just fine.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Free Supercharging is overrated, unless you're planning on constant long-distance driving.

Remember, you leave your house with a full "tank" every day, and with your new Tesla roof, that "tank" is likely to be filled for free.

I'd go for the 100D as the range delta is large relative to the cost delta.

But, frankly, either outcome is pretty decent as the 90 may meet your needs just fine.

Loss of ventilated seats with the 100D needs to be factored in, if that is relevant in this case.

(On the Model X side the interior trim packs were introduced earlier so that limitation affects only Model S 90D orders at this stage I think.)

 

[schonelucht]

We were so trusting of Elon.

You trusted your sales advisor. Unfortunately, it has been proven time and time again that they have no pull in policy decisions. Read the forums on this subject and others. It may not give you the closure you seek but hopefully it will convince your rational side over your emotional side that what you wish is not going to happen.

Sales officers' assurances are not something Tesla feels bound by when it comes to company policy. There is zero possibility you will resolve this issue amicably. It's been ruled as far up as possible this is what it is going to be which includes a formal statement from the VP on this. No 100D + free supercharging. If you feel that you communication with your advisor was sufficiently clear that it legally commits Tesla to a binding offer, then the only way for you to get them to honor that commitment is going to be through legal means. Keep in mind that there is a very large likelihood that your case isn't very strong.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

You trusted your sales advisor. Unfortunately, it has been proven time and time again that they have no pull in policy decisions. Read the forums on this subject and others. It may not give you the closure you seek but hopefully it will convince your rational side over your emotional side that what you wish is not going to happen.

Sales officers' assurances are not something Tesla feels bound by when it comes to company policy. There is zero possibility you will resolve this issue amicably. It's been ruled as far up as possible this is what it is going to be which includes a formal statement from the VP on this. No 100D + free supercharging. If you feel that you communication with your advisor was sufficiently clear that it legally commits Tesla to a binding offer, then the only way for you to get them to honor that commitment is going to be through legal means. Keep in mind that there is a very large likelihood that your case isn't very strong.

The legality question is interesting.

After all, Tesla has also insisted that as a matter of policy all Tesla's are sold through Tesla's own stores (there have been some international exceptions, but probably none going forward).

So the assurances, if such have been given (we know some have - though not necessarily the one in this thread that was worded vaguely), they have been given to the customer by a Tesla representative.

The customer holding Tesla to Tesla's word certainly might have some legal weight, though probably not enough to force a product delivery change, as I'm sure return of money at no cost would be deemed a sufficient remedy. Perhaps with some additional costs reimbursed if such could be demonstrated...

 

[schonelucht]

To comment on the --has been hashed out to death' comment...
The original poster indicated that he did escalate it to Fremont. This is a worthy topic.

This has already escalated to the VP level. Jon McNeil has issued a formal statement on 100D + unlimited supercharging here 100D, unlimited supercharging and ventilated seats!!!! I DID IT! WOOO WOOOOOOOO!!!!!! I don't think contacting Fremont is going to do anything except maybe register this poster's complaint so that in the future Tesla will reign in promises from sales centers that aren't theirs to promise in the first place.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

This has already escalated to the VP level. Jon McNeil has issued a formal statement on 100D + unlimited supercharging here 100D, unlimited supercharging and ventilated seats!!!! I DID IT! WOOO WOOOOOOOO!!!!!! I don't think contacting Fremont is going to do anything except maybe register this poster's complaint so that in the future Tesla will reign in promises from sales centers that aren't theirs to promise in the first place.

I guess in theory it might affect Tesla behavior in future product changes, if the number of negative feedback has been sufficiently high.

After all, Countergate did force Tesla's hand.

That said, I agree Tesla will not likely go back on this particular one - the useful time for that has gone.

 

[F123456]

I could understand your point if that is a same order, same VIN such as you when you wanted to change the paint color...

However, your change of option from X90D to X100D now becomes a change in VIN so it is hard to claim that is a same order (or date).

Nope. My VIN did not change.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Tesla to a binding offer, then the only way for you to get them to honor that commitment is going to be through legal means. Keep in mind that there is a very large likelihood that your case isn't very strong.

Not only that, but the cost to litigate would far outweigh the lost cost of FUSC. Even if you're forced into mediation (look in your contract or MVPA), is it really worth the hassle to save a few hundred bucks a year? What is your time worth?

 

[brkaus]

Note you could change to a 75D and maintain unlimited supercharging.

Agree with above. If they change now, there are a lot of people that need to be make while to be consistent.

They priced the 100d with the other changes in mind.

They could have make it a $12k option on the old price book and $3k on the new one. Hat would make for some interesting decisions.

 

[MXWing]

Tesla needs to just offer USC for $2000. That would shut people up and at the same time make lots of money from people bad at math.

 

[Bet TSLA]

Tesla needs to just offer USC for $2000. That would shut people up and at the same time make lots of money from people bad at math.

I'd buy it. And it would save me money over the long run, probably about $500/yr if I keep driving long trips at my current rate.

But I don't think Tesla will do this until it becomes clear how things are working out with supercharger wait times. After that, sure. Sooner, they might allow pre-purchase of bulk amounts of charging at some discount.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Tesla needs to just offer USC for $2000. That would shut people up and at the same time make lots of money from people bad at math.

I've posted that before and I agree.. with one critical caveat -- no free supercharging within 100 miles of your home address (or where the car is garaged most of the time). And Tesla can monitor this, so people can't cheat by just putting down a different home address 100 miles away from their actual home.

 

[MXWing]

I've posted that before and I agree.. with one critical caveat -- no free supercharging within 100 miles of your home address (or where the car is garaged most of the time). And Tesla can monitor this, so people can't cheat by just putting down a different home address 100 miles away from their actual home.

It looks like my nephew will meet Elon Musk today. I will ask him to relay the message.

This is just a good win-win situation for everyone.

 

[brkaus]

I've noted before, the only ones who will pay $2kare the few bad at math and the ines good at math that know they will abuse it.

 

[MXWing]

I've noted before, the only ones who will pay $2kare the few bad at math and the ines good at math that know they will abuse it.

I guess not being able to FUSC within 100 (maybe 50 more reasonable?) miles of your home would make it pointless to abuse? Your time has to matter at some point.

 

[andrewket]

Agreed, anybody who wants to have the latest and greatest for any significant period of time can not really buy a Tesla if the current policy persists. The likelihood of the product being superceded by the next version, or even versions, before you even get your car or very quickly afterwards is significantly higher than with any other car on the market.

That is something that one must factor in. I still wish Tesla would do a bit more pacing and grouping though. It might be wise. The AP1/P85D/85D was an example of successful grouping IMO. Had they done the same for AP2/P100D/100D (and maybe offered FUSC for that for a while), that would been a clearer buying opportunty for those who wish to buy/upgrade at clearly defined breakpoints. Doing it piecemeal (even more so when facelift etc. are factored in) makes things harder for the customers.

As it stands, Tesla doesn't really have any kind of such buying opportunities for that audience, which can lead to constant Osborning in the minds of some people. Why buy now when waiting a quarter will bring tangible benefits... and then the next quarter... and the next... Definitely those who already have a Tesla have been seen, at least somewhat, as decreasing their interest in upgrades. They can afford to wait - and this encourages them to wait.

Anecdotally, with the AP1/P85D/85D we saw tons more existing Tesla owners upgrading than now that people know every quarter brings major changes, sometimes even many times a quarter. (In 2012-2014 the changes that did come ever so often were, in the end, small aside from AP1/P85D/85D.)

Elon also stated after the P85D announcement that there would be no significant changes to the Model S for one year. This was part of my calculus for upgrading at the time.

 

[azred]

I've posted that before and I agree.. with one critical caveat -- no free supercharging within 100 miles of your home address (or where the car is garaged most of the time). And Tesla can monitor this, so people can't cheat by just putting down a different home address 100 miles away from their actual home.

Swell idea. When I drive from my home in Chandler to son's SE Tucson home, the roundtrip is about 240 miles, which is far beyond my S60 full charge 210 range. The only relevant supercharger is about 30 miles South of me, which makes the trip feasible if I stop both ways... barely.Your plan would punish me and why??