US S.3559 115th Congress

[Glamisduner]

Well, no you are not paying gas tax which is the biggest state and federal source of highway funds. You might be paying a registration fee when you license your EV.

Also, I tire of people saying gas gets subsidies, Companies, all companies get to claim deductions and depreciation, nothing special is given to petroleum companies.
The fact is electric car owners will be 2nd class citizens as long as the government gives them breaks that are not given to all car owners's
. The lower-middle-class guy driving an old beater feels pretty put out some fairly well to do person is getting government help to buy and drive an electric car. Can't say I don't disagree with him.

Do you have a link that shows how much the US spends in oil subsidies?
All I could quickly find was this, but it only says billions, and I don't know if it is a legitimate link.
Americans who complain about rising gas costs should get some perspective

 

[brur]

it amounts to claiming depreciation and deductions available to every company is a petroleum giveaway.

 

[Matt M]

Well, no you are not paying gas tax which is the biggest state and federal source of highway funds. You might be paying a registration fee when you license your EV.

Also, I tire of people saying gas gets subsidies, Companies, all companies get to claim deductions and depreciation, nothing special is given to petroleum companies.
The fact is electric car owners will be 2nd class citizens as long as the government gives them breaks that are not given to all car owners's
. The lower-middle-class guy driving an old beater feels pretty put out some fairly well to do person is getting government help to buy and drive an electric car. Can't say I don't disagree with him.

All companies don't get to claim the "Inland Waters Transport for Petroleum Subsidy" , nor the "intangible Drilling Oil & Gas Deduction subsidy". The "intangible Drilling Oil & Gas Deduction subsidy" works differently than a typical expense revenue deduction for a normal business, and provides additional benefit due to the risk involved in drilling exploratory wells. This is a direct subsidy for oil companies. I'm not here to debate if these are valid or not, but just bringing up the point that there ARE subsidies involved for oil companies that aren't available to all businesses.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Well, no you are not paying gas tax which is the biggest state and federal source of highway funds. You might be paying a registration fee when you license your EV.

Also, I tire of people saying gas gets subsidies, Companies, all companies get to claim deductions and depreciation, nothing special is given to petroleum companies.
The fact is electric car owners will be 2nd class citizens as long as the government gives them breaks that are not given to all car owners's
. The lower-middle-class guy driving an old beater feels pretty put out some fairly well to do person is getting government help to buy and drive an electric car. Can't say I don't disagree with him.

So what are our city and state taxes for? And tolls?

 

[chronopc]

There are only 2 companies that have the EV ball rolling. Tesla and Nissan.

Everyone else is in the "trying" mode.

Why aren't EV people paying for the roads they drive on? I pay my tolls and taxes just like ICE people. The tax credit has nothing to do with roads.

GM has also hit the 200k cap. I was surprised to find out that Nissan hasn't hit the cap yet.

 

[chronopc]

Well, no you are not paying gas tax which is the biggest state and federal source of highway funds. You might be paying a registration fee when you license your EV.

In CA, the registration fee for an EV is higher since we don't pay any gas tax.

 

[Vines]

If you dig into the tax breaks that Oil and Coal get you can see they are not like every other company, but you need to be a tax professional (or a google search) to really understand them.
Oil: A big investment with big tax breaks
Friendly policies keep US oil and coal afloat far more than we thought

 

[Vines]

From the Investopedia article:
"This list of tax breaks effectively illustrates how serious the U.S. government is about developing the domestic energy infrastructure. Perhaps most telling is the fact that there are no income or net worth limitations of any kind other than what is listed above (i.e., the small producer limit). Therefore, even the wealthiest investors could invest directly in oil and gas and receive all of the benefits listed above, as long as they limit their ownership to 1,000 barrels of oil per day. No other investment category in America can compete with the smorgasbord of tax breaks that are available to the oil and gas industry."

 

[StellarRat]

Wyoming also is the perfect place for wind farms. They're currently busy fighting with themselves like a man with two heads. They tax their own wind power. My own feeling is that the US congressman from Wyoming are on the wrong side of this with their own citizens. At the state and local level they seem to be onboard for all the wind they can generate for purely economic reasons aka climate change notwithstanding. Wyoming really has nothing in the way of resources other coal/gas, mines and grazing, so you have to look at it from their perspective.

 

[pipestem]

I'm not advocating charging an EV using coal generated electricity, but the reality is today a decent amount of electricity in the US is still generated by coal.

With Wyoming being the largest coal producing state (by a large margin) it seems their Senators would support more EV's.

Dang it don't be reasonable. This is culture wars. Those tree hugging EV owners want to tax carbon and kill jobs. They want to eliminate carbon. We can't let that happen. Squish it now. The new logic is that we have so much oil and gas in the US that we don't need to conserve anymore. We need to burn to create jobs. Driving an EV is unpatriotic. We need to block their chargers.

 

[pipestem]

... My own feeling is that the US congressman from Wyoming are on the wrong side of this with their own citizens. .

Seriously doubt that. Trump took Wyoming with 67.4% of the vote. They are doing exactly what Trump said he would do.

 

[CarterStC]

The interesting part is they state that the gov't is paying each time an EV is purchased via the tax credit. However:
1. That money belonged to the buyer, it isn't funded by tax dollars.
2. If #1 were true, who do they think are funding these EV credits? The wealthier segment of the population pay higher taxes, the same people that purchase EVs.

It's a lose-lose argument, but they float it and people buy it.

 

[StellarRat]

Seriously doubt that. Trump took Wyoming with 67.4% of the vote. They are doing exactly what Trump said he would do.

People don't vote on one issue usually.

 

[Barklikeadog]

I don't understand the point... at this point. I cant stand the govt subsidizing anything. The govt should not be picking winners and losers, let the market and consumer decide.
If EVs are better, cleaner, affordable, people will buy them and the inferior product will lose. There are anomalies of course, Apple can put their logo on a pile of doggie doo,
charge $1,000, and every coffee shop will need some febreeze. The original subsidy should have been limited by agi and price. It is a bit ridiculous that someone could spend $120k
on a luxury vehicle and get a tax break.. and then not pay tax to maintain the roads.

 

[wdolson]

Probably the best place for this would be the Market Politics thread.
Market politics

Interestingly, a bill in the opposite direction was started in the House today. I doubt Barasso's bill will go anywhere.

 

[Tam]

...I don't understand the point...

Elon Musk believes the government has a role in punishing bad behaviors and rewarding good behaviors. He gave an example that people who throw trashes out of their cars should pay tickets and people who spill toxic gas from their tailpipes should pay a carbon tax.

 

[T34ME]

Elon Musk believes the government has a role in punishing bad behaviors and rewarding good behaviors. He gave an example that people who throw trashes out of their cars should pay tickets and people who spill toxic gas from their tailpipes should pay a carbon tax.

Interesting concept - eliminate all EV tax credits but institute additional tax (carbon tax) for ICE paid at the pump including hybrids. I could get behind that!

(BTW, love the Butcher and Baker in V-town)

 

[realvvk]

A group of Republican senators have introduced a new bill to kill the federal electric vehicle tax credit completely and add a new annual tax for electric vehicles.

I would welcome this for two reasons. Number one, it would go a very long way towards reducing the animosity a certain segment of society feels against EVs and EV owners. Many view the tax break as an unfair subsidy to people who don't deserve it in their opinion. Whether one agrees with this sentiment or not is irrelevant -- the fact remains that many people view EV tax credits and other perks as unfair. Number two, eliminating federal EV incentives at this point would help Tesla be more competitive against companies who introduce new EVs that are eligible for full tax credit.

Having said that, I would also love to see the tax breaks for the oil industry eliminated while we are at it.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I would welcome this for two reasons. Number one, it would go a very long way towards reducing the animosity a certain segment of society feels against EVs and EV owners. Many view the tax break as an unfair subsidy to people who don't deserve it in their opinion. Whether one agrees with this sentiment or not is irrelevant -- the fact remains that many people view EV tax credits and other perks as unfair. Number two, eliminating federal EV incentives at this point would help Tesla be more competitive against companies who introduce new EVs that are eligible for full tax credit.

Having said that, I would also love to see the tax breaks for the oil industry eliminated while we are at it.

I would never agree to pay someone to satisfy their misplaced animosity.

I believe that the EV tax breaks don't get close to matching the subsidies that Oil/Gas gets concerning vehicles. So many people think that Gas/Oil prices are what they are at the pump. NO....Gas is much more expensive without the subsidies. Nothing is unfair about that.


I'm starting to have some animosity concerning this thread. ( I accept credit cards....lol ).

 

[SO16]

I would welcome this for two reasons. Number one, it would go a very long way towards reducing the animosity a certain segment of society feels against EVs and EV owners. Many view the tax break as an unfair subsidy to people who don't deserve it in their opinion. Whether one agrees with this sentiment or not is irrelevant -- the fact remains that many people view EV tax credits and other perks as unfair. Number two, eliminating federal EV incentives at this point would help Tesla be more competitive against companies who introduce new EVs that are eligible for full tax credit.

Having said that, I would also love to see the tax breaks for the oil industry eliminated while we are at it.

All EV owners should really start protesting over oil subsidies. Especially when they disappear for renewables.