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US supercharging cost decrease?
- Thread starter wsxedc12
- Start date
If you just asked whether energy prices will decrease anytime soon, the answer is “hahahahahaha!”Will supercharger cost per kwh decrease in future months?
Or it's even better to own a ICE car.
I have the same question as the OP. Purchasing an equivalent amount of energy as one gallon of gasoline at a Supercharger costs $13.48 if the Supercharger cost is .40/ kwh. Which is what I'm seeing now and frequently even higher. Having spotted the gas price today of $3.08 this seems like a huge discrepancy that could be lessened. I don't pretent to understand the vagaries of the energy markets but do fully understand that Tesla wants to recoup the cost of installing the vast Supercharger network. To those of you who possess knowledge on this subject, once again we ask- do you see a path to a lesser supercharger rate? At home I pay about 10 cents/kwh which equates to $3.37 per gallon of gas equivalent. At 100-130 mpg it's very economical but at .40 the conversion yields about 30 mpg or less. So on a trip the gas guzzler does as well or perhaps better than my efficient Tesla. Don't like that.
How are you calculating these gallon of gas equivalents? If you're paying 10 cents per kWh at home, get 3 miles per kWh, and assume a 30 mpg equivalent if the car was gas, you're paying $1 for the same miles driven on a gallon of gas. At 40 cents per kWh you are paying more than gas but certainly not $13 +.
There are two comparisons: energy equivalence and economic equivalence. One gallon of gas holds 33.7 kwh of energy. My Tesla has averaged 3.85 miles per kwh for its life so 3.85 miles/kwh x 33.7 kwh/gal = 129.7 miles/gal equivalent. If I pay .10/kwh x 33.7 kwh/gal = $3.37 /gal, so for $3.37 I have purchased an equivalent amount of energy as one gallon of gasoline. If I do 3.85 m/kwh we have the same 129.7 mpg. If I pay .40 per kwh, then divide by 4 and you get 32.4 mpg, or multiply the cost by 4 and you get $13.48. If the gas price goes up the mpg goes up and if gas is cheaper the mpg goes down. In my area $3.37 is a fairly representative price right now. I know it seems absurd and I would love to be wrong but it seems like a straightforward calculation. I would be happy to read where my mistake was. Let me know.
zoomer0056
Active Member
As other posts have stated there’s efficiency considerations (EV’s win that comparison all day long) and there’s economic considerations. My Tesla MY gets 6 times better efficiency than my ICE vehicle (120 MPGe vs 20 MPG). But the “gallon” of energy I purchase at home from my electric supplier is 27% more at $4.72 ($.14/kWh x 33.7 kWh/gal) vs $3.70/gal. for gasoline. But even with this price comparison the EV is still way ahead. It’s when you pay $.38-.40/kWh at a supercharger that your savings are eroded but not completely negated. If you have the convenience of charging at home and your local rates are relatively inexpensive (we have time of use rates that are cheaper at night) it’s a no brainer to own an EV. Other EV advantages: low maintenance, fun to drive/great acceleration, convenience of waking up to a full battery each morning, electric rates are less volatile than gasoline prices.
Nissanman
Member
An easier comparison might be cost per mile? For example on a 200 mile round trip: my gas car gets about 25 mpg, so it uses 8 gallons in this example, at $4.50 per gallon right now in Washington state = $36, or $0.18 per mile. The same trip in my Model S, assuming my long term average of 330 kwh/mile, at my home electric rate of $0.12 per kwh = $7.28, or $0.04 per mile. If the trip is 400 miles, and I have to hit a Supercharger at $0.40 per kwh, that changes the math of course, and it might be cheaper for me to take the gas car...
There's no mistake per se, but what you're missing is that the EV goes much further on the equivalent amount of energy.
and your EV goes 129 miles on that energy. No ICE car comes close.
Yes, if you are paying typical supercharger peak rates your cost *per mile driven* is similar to a gas burning car. In some places you can do better by supercharging during off peak hours at lower rates, but that varies by location.
I don't believe I overlooked that point as here is what I said about it:
I know you questioned my statement that electricity could cost so much relative to gasoline but I think you now understand that it is indeed exorbitantly high at the superchargers. What no one has sufficiently answered is whether this huge discrepancy will be ameliorated in the future. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. But even at those rates I get an mpge as good as or better than most ICE cars, I feel better about my environmental impact and don't we all just love driving these things!
I’m glad I can charge at home 95% of the time where the rates are relatively inexpensive. If I lived in a condo or apartment where I was relegated to using expensive public chargers it would definitely cut into the cost benefits of owning an EV and would be less convenient. Hopefully as more superchargers come on line they’ll become competitively priced. But this will probably require saturation levels similar to gas stations (on street corners around the country and at least one in every town).
Agree totally regarding charging at home and I mirror your situation. As to the ubiquity of public rapid charging stations it seems to me this is the "chicken or egg" story. Those living in apartments aren't going to buy EVs if they can't charge reasonably (close and economically priced) and no one's gonna put up expensive stations if there aren't sufficient EV's that need to be charged on a frequent basis. Perhaps the evolution there will be apartment complexes installing Level 2 charging stations; they could leverage that amenity to higher rents or make income on the stations per charge and still make it a reasonable alternative to ICE.
According to my trip meter and my electric rate I'm achieving almost 130 mpge. My father would be 112 now and he loved cars and progress; he was the first person I thought about when I got mine and wanted to show it off. He would have been to the moon in awe. Cheers
At least around here, Bay Area, while things fluctuated a bit - I think Tesla was trying to understand usage dynamics, UBER users, owners in various areas so the AM pricing used to be reasonable, now EVERYTHING has just gone up sometimes nearly double the previous pricing, and the top pricing has gone up 10-15% on average. Sort of doesn’t make much sense as overall electricity prices from providers haven’t seen that type of price increase at all. I think TESLA has switched their thinking to from “break even, not profit center but not operationally COST center” to “PROFIT center”
My dad would be 101 y.o. I know he would be super excited about EV’s if he was still alive. He loved hyper-miling in his VW Beatle including coasting in neutral whenever he could. He was also a forward thinker constantly reading Popular Mechanics and Scientific American. When we only had a B&W TV I asked him when we would get a color TV. He said “when TV’s are so thin and light weight that you can hang them on the wall like a picture.” This was in the 1960’s!
So your question is why is supercharging so much costlier than at home? I'm not as knowledgeable as many on this forum but we're talking DC charging equipment vs AC. Don't know the exact equipment cost but I'm confident we're talking tens of thousands vs a few hundred. There are also demand charges from utilities for high usage customers and those can be very expensive. Demand charge is a fee based on the peak amount of electricity the site draws during a billing period.
Anyway I doubt you will see a significant decrease in level 3 charging costs anytime soon.
I agree. With the planning, engineering, permitting, real estate agreements, equipment costs, demand pricing and maintenance, it must be super expensive to get these charge stations up and keep them running. That’s why last month when BMW, General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes and Stellantis announced they are planning to build a charging network which will not only rival Tesla’s but will also surpass it in terms of amenities, I was partly cheering and partly chuckling because oh what a tough slog it’s going to be for them to get them built.
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