USB Too Slow -TeslaCam

[rxlawdude]

Total nonsense.

For one- the Teslacam isn't a high-usage security camera.

It's writing 720p video as a much lower rate than the actual modern 4k high-use security dashcams are.

In normal usage (8-10 hours a day) it'd take 5-10 years to burn through the rated write-cycles on a 128GB USB key (any brand) with how little data Tesla is writing to it.

It's absolutely a software bug- because many folks with exactly the same HW are having totally different results.

Folks with SSDs, SDCards, and USB keys- even the same ones as each other- some have the issue- some don't- and even among those who have it there's a lot of variability in how it presents.

A problem that runs across all types of HW, and starts happening after a software update to previously just-fine hardware, is a software problem.






Except folks were getting "too slow" even before they added the 4th camera. In fact for some folks the problem was "fixed" with V10- for others it suddenly appears with V10... for still others it only appeared a little while after V10.

And the 4th camera only increases the write speed from 1.5 MB/s to 2 MB/s- still much slower than even the slowest sustained write speed of USB keys.

Here's a review of the Samsung BAR plus for example-
https://www.storagereview.com/node/7097

Sequential write speeds measured as 61.84MB/s- random 2MB writes as 56.01MB/s (granted this is on a USB3 bus and the car is USB2, but it shows the actual key can easily by a factor of more than 25x handle the speed the car needs.



It's a software problem.

There's a lot of things the problem could be- crap USB controller code, crap handling of the video files between computer, cache, and storage, crap error checking, etc...

What we can be sure of- given even folks with HW many many times faster than needed also have the issue (while others with measurably slower devices don't) is that it's not a HW problem.

Here's something for you to try, if you have a USB flash drive and are getting a "too slow" message: Take the flash drive to your computer and try transferring multi-GB files to it and (with Windows) open "details" on the transfer status window. If your results are like mine, you'll see this is indeed hardware. I was shocked to see a sawtooth pattern, going from 30MB/sec to <1MB/sec with a Samsung high-end USB that was in use five months. (And the first "too slow" message occurred during V9, late in Spring.)

So rather than speculate, TEST. If your computer transfers to the media run at a constant speed >20MB/sec, you should not see the message in the car.

 

[DopeGhoti]

I have done this (albeit not with Windows, but with Linux, which offers similar visibility into file transfer metrics): on a device which occasionally would give the "Too Slow" error on the MFD, can reliably and consistently get continual write rates several orders of magnitude faster than the MFD-stated 4MB/sec.

As an aside, the only time I ever get this message anymore is sometimes when my car attempts to record Sentry footage. The dashcam works reliably and consistently.

 

[Knightshade]

Here's something for you to try, if you have a USB flash drive and are getting a "too slow" message

I'm not getting any errors at all. Never have, since the day dashcam was first released over a year ago.

Despite using the exact same HW others who ARE getting errors are using (and often they only get them after a new SW update when they worked fine before)

Because (barring someone who gets a defective one in the first place) this is a software problem.

 

[moshee]

You got a defective key. Sequential read speeds should be in the hundreds of MB/s for that device.

My mistake, meant to say write speed.

In any case, the figure that matters is not "up to" some speed, it's sustained performance. I too was able to achieve around 15 MB/s on the bar plus, for a single test. Playing with the settings, it becomes clear the drives can't sustain that write performance continuously.

I'm of the opinion that they were silently ignoring buffer underruns before but started aggressively checking write speeds with margin of error after some people reported corrupted files. The bar plus (and other drives) might've been sitting in that margin of error where it would have probably worked (most of the time), but now they are simply blocked off by software. It probably could have been handled better but not by much.

 

[Knightshade]

My mistake, meant to say write speed.

In any case, the figure that matters is not "up to" some speed, it's sustained performance. I too was able to achieve around 15 MB/s on the bar plus, for a single test. Playing with the settings, it becomes clear the drives can't sustain that write performance continuously.

I mean- I linked you to the exact test you asked for- CDM- showing it doing sustained writes WAY above the required speed... and way above the speeds you observed on sequential writes.

You got a defective one.

 

[rxlawdude]

I'm not getting any errors at all. Never have, since the day dashcam was first released over a year ago.

Despite using the exact same HW others who ARE getting errors are using (and often they only get them after a new SW update when they worked fine before)

Because (barring someone who gets a defective one in the first place) this is a software problem.

OK then. You have elected to not test the much more likely hypothesis that it's your memory stick. SMH.

 

[Knightshade]

OK then. You have elected to not test the much more likely hypothesis that it's your memory stick. SMH.

Given my memory stick works fine your comment makes no sense.

Given tons of folks have both had, and not had, problem with the same sticks- including changing from no problems to problems, AND vice versa, after software updates, it makes even less.

SMH indeed.

 

[Ferengii]

Since switching from a Samsung Bar Plus 256GB to a Sandisk Extreme Pro 128GB a month ago, I have had zero issues with the "too slow" message. Several other people have reported success with this model as well.

I bought the Sandisk Extreme Pro 128GB Drive (from Amazon) figuring this would avoid the “too slow’’ message. It worked for about two months before it it got “too slow”. I reformatted it, wrote data to it, and it would be ok for several days before it was once again too slow. I bought an inexpensive 256GB Sandisk drive from Costco and it’s been working fine for 3 months. Just another data point...

 

[Knightshade]

I bought the Sandisk Extreme Pro 128GB Drive (from Amazon) figuring this would avoid the “too slow’’ message. It worked for about two months before it it got “too slow”. I reformatted it, wrote data to it, and it would be ok for several days before it was once again too slow. I bought an inexpensive 256GB Sandisk drive from Costco and it’s been working fine for 3 months. Just another data point...

Man, it's almost like this isn't actually a hardware problem or something

 

[BZM3]

So many threads on this..can someone just tell me what to buy!!!! So much yada yada yada. Just tell me who can take my money!

 

[Knightshade]

So many threads on this..can someone just tell me what to buy!!!! So much yada yada yada. Just tell me who can take my money!

Given many folks with the same hardware get different results- no, nobody can really tell you that.

It's a software problem.


Buy a quality USB storage device of at least 128GB. An "extreme pro" high endurance one isn't needed... it won't hurt anything, but with sufficient size and decent quality even "regular" ones of that size will last 5+ years...and a 256GB one twice as long as that.

If it doesn't appear to be working you can run a benchmarking program on a PC against the device to insure you don't have defective HW- and if you don't you'll see double-digit write speeds in the benchmark and confirm your HW is fine but Teslas software sucks.

(if you instead get massively low single-digit sustained writes, return the HW as defective- as any decent USB storage should be several times faster than that)

I'm using a 128GB Samsung Fit Plus key. It's worked great for over a year now- 0 issues, including on v10.

Others have reported issues with that same HW (often only after a software update though).

Same is true of basically every other piece of storage I've seen suggested for this use including Pro/Extreme SDcards (see posts right above yours) and even SSDs.

 

[sduck]

So many threads on this..can someone just tell me what to buy!!!! So much yada yada yada. Just tell me who can take my money!

I've used one of these for almost a year with no problems -
https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-250GB-Extreme-Portable-External/dp/B078SVRH4B/

 

[rxlawdude]

Given many folks with the same hardware get different results- no, nobody can really tell you that.

It's a software problem.


Buy a quality USB storage device of at least 128GB. An "extreme pro" high endurance one isn't needed... it won't hurt anything, but with sufficient size and decent quality even "regular" ones of that size will last 5+ years...and a 256GB one twice as long as that.

If it doesn't appear to be working you can run a benchmarking program on a PC against the device to insure you don't have defective HW- and if you don't you'll see double-digit write speeds in the benchmark and confirm your HW is fine but Teslas software sucks.

(if you instead get massively low single-digit sustained writes, return the HW as defective- as any decent USB storage should be several times faster than that)

I'm using a 128GB Samsung Fit Plus key. It's worked great for over a year now- 0 issues, including on v10.

Others have reported issues with that same HW (often only after a software update though).

Same is true of basically every other piece of storage I've seen suggested for this use including Pro/Extreme SDcards (see posts right above yours) and even SSDs.

You do know that from one memory chip to another, variations occur, right? You do know that many of the brand name flash drives on Amazon are Chinese counterfeits, right?

Your associating the "same hardware with different results" is based on an assumption that each flash drive, even from a name brand, function identically over the entire capacity and with constant I/O. I believe your assumption is wrong.

Oh yeah, I had one of the Samsung Extremes. After four months it died, shortly after a software change added the additional camera. Erasing it would provide temporary relief, until it tried to write to the bad cells. Cells do go bad from being constantly battered with data and overwrites.

 

[Knightshade]

You do know that from one memory chip to another, variations occur, right?

Sure.

But not to a degree one would write at 15 MB/s and another would write at 1.5 MB/s.

Any electronics company with tolerances that poor would be out of business pretty quick.

Flash memory isn't a high end CPU wafer, the variance is WAY smaller than you seem to imply.

You do know that many of the brand name flash drives on Amazon are Chinese counterfeits, right?

Not sure why you imagine that'd be any different from SDcards or stuff like M.2 SSDs- making the comment irrelevant.

Your associating the "same hardware with different results" is based on an assumption that each flash drive, even from a name brand, function identically over the entire capacity and with constant I/O. I believe your assumption is wrong.

And I believe your assumption there's enough variance to matter here is wrong.

Imagine if Tesla sold two Performance model 3s, and one took 3.2 seconds 0-60, the other took 32 seconds.

That's the level of variance you're suggesting exists here. It's ludicrous

 

[rxlawdude]

Sure.

But not to a degree one would write at 15 MB/s and another would write at 1.5 MB/s.

Any electronics company with tolerances that poor would be out of business pretty quick.

Flash memory isn't a high end CPU wafer, the variance is WAY smaller than you seem to imply.




Not sure why you imagine that'd be any different from SDcards or stuff like M.2 SSDs- making the comment irrelevant.




And I believe your assumption there's enough variance to matter here is wrong.

Imagine if Tesla sold two Performance model 3s, and one took 3.2 seconds 0-60, the other took 32 seconds.

That's the level of variance you're suggesting exists here. It's ludicrous

"But not to a degree one would write at 15 MB/s and another would write at 1.5 MB/s." In fact, that's EXACTLY what my Samsung supposedly high-end USB stick did. Would be writing (from Windows computer) at 40MB/s and suddenly drop to BELOW 1MB/s, then speed up and then slow down, etc. I'm confident that it's flash drive write failure that is the root cause.

 

[Kevy Baby]

DID WE REALLY NEED ANOTHER THREAD ABOUT THIS?!?

I am with @Knightshade on this - from all the posts I've read (and it has been many), all evidence points to it being mainly a SW problem (and possible some bad drives, but that is not a sign of a wholesale "hardware problem"). Get an inexpensive larger drive (Costco has as 256 SanDisk I believe for $32 right now) and just see what happens. There is not a single flash, micro SD, or SSD that has not experienced the Too Slow message.

Would be writing (from Windows computer) at 40MB/s and suddenly drop to BELOW 1MB/s, then speed up and then slow down, etc. I'm confident that it's flash drive write failure that is the root cause.

1. Did you perform a test of the drive before you put it in your Tesla to see if it did this?
2. Did you test transfer speeds on another computer?
3. Have you done anything besides this one transfer to test this phenomenon?

Also, a SOFTWARE issue can easily cause the issues you are reporting, even to the point of permanent damage to the drive, be it a flash, SD, or SSD.
_______________________________________

I am firmly in the "it's a software issue" camp. Until I start seeing empirical evidence to the contrary, you'll be hard pressed to change my mind.

 

[Kevy Baby]

Maybe we need to figure out how to install a bank of VCRs (one for each camera) into our cars...

 

[sduck]

There is not a single flash, micro SD, or SSD that has not experienced the Too Slow message.

I haven't seen any reports of the Too Slow message from ssd users. There have been other, unrelated errors with some isolated ssd's, but I've been watching, and haven't seen any speed related ones. I've been using a ssd for almost a year and have never gotten any error messages related to my ssd.

(someone will report that they've gotten the dreaded Too Slow message with an ssd before the night is through...)

 

[DesertBone]

For what it’s worth I only get this error message when the interior gets pretty hot (110*+). Happens with multiple different USBs (all recommendations from here) both before and after v10. Might look into a SSD next summer, but for now it’s good.

 

[Kevy Baby]

I haven't seen any reports of the Too Slow message from ssd users.

I have. I believe it was someone using a Pi Zero W, but I am not going to take the time to search for it.