DopeGhoti
Active Member
If you're using spinning platters of glass, the worry is not so much about temperature (though that is a factor) as it is about vibration.
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USB Too Slow -TeslaCam
- Thread starter El0n
- Start date
BOBEDIGITL
Member
That's definitely my biggest concern over the temp, however I did put an enclosure around it. I'll see how long it works, so far I haven't received any issues. Worst case i can go with a SSD.
One of my 3s has this same error. I bought a brand new 64 GB Sandisk drive and it continues to show the error during Sentry Mode. I’ve never had the error show up while driving.
The odd thing about it is that I have the same model Sandisk drive in my other 3 and it’s been running smoothly since Tesla introduced the dash cam feature.
The odd thing about it is that I have the same model Sandisk drive in my other 3 and it’s been running smoothly since Tesla introduced the dash cam feature.
rxlawdude
Active Member
Try getting a fast SD card and a USB adapter. Those are far more robust than a flash drive, especially for the amount of data pounding it constantly.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
People keep saying this- and it keeps not being true.
The car is recording 4 720p cameras at 36 fps... these aren't 4k UHD 60 FPS cameras.
The port on the car is USB2. The amount of data being written is relatively tiny.
The car is writing at 2MB a second.
Which basically any flash drive of any decent size should be able to do sustained writes many times faster than, and any good ones at 10-20x faster than that or more.
The car is only writing 7.2 GB per hour- and only while "awake" which for most people is maybe 8-10 hours a day. Meaning flash drives of good size, even regular non-endurance ones, should last for many years before you come close to hitting their rated number of write cycles.
As further evidence we have folks who use the same storage as someone else one having issues the other not... and we have folks who not only use the same flash drive in 2 cars and get issues in one car but not the other... but other folks who actually swapped drives between 2 cars (one working and one with issues) and the problem didn't follow the storage device it stayed with the car
That's on top of the fact many errors only appears after SW updates, and many have since gone away after additional updates.
Barring cases where folks started with defective/counterfeit hardware- This isn't a storage HW problem. It's a software problem.
rxlawdude
Active Member
You again? With your well disproved "software" problem? FACT: Since switching to Micro-SD plus USB adapter, I have had ZERO errors. That's now after 5 months. Everyone reporting they switched to this hardware arrangement has noted the same.
I don't know why you keep incessantly complaining. Just get the right hardware.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
You don't seem to understand what 'disproved' means.
I gave you multiple examples in the post you're replying to that do the opposite and prove it can't be a storage device issue.
If it were it'd follow the storage device, not the car, when you swap working/non-working storage.
It doesn't.
Also facts:
I've been using a USB key for much longer- with 0 problems ever.
That's why using a sample size of 1 sucks.
Meanwhile again we have folks who have 2 Teslas, and use the same storage hardware with 2 different cars and get different results.
And folks who have issues in one car but not the other car- and when they swap storage devices (different ones even!) the problem STAYS WITH THE SAME CAR and doesn't follow the storage HW.
How do you explain that if the problem is the storage HW?
That's a flat out lie. Tons of folks have reported issues with SD cards in the various threads on the topic. There's even folks who've had issues with SSDs.
Because, again, it's not a hardware issue- it's a software issue.
I did. A nice USB flash drive that has worked flawlessly for almost 3 times longer than your SDcard has so far
DopeGhoti
Active Member
Using a USB 3 device on a USB 2 port will just have the USB 3 device downstep to the USB 2 speeds. USB 3 is a superset of USB 2, which in turn is a superset of USB 1.
I do concur with the conclusion that this is a software issue. The amount of data being written doesn't come anywhere near saturating a USB 2 bus. I was getting "too slow" alerts in the first few "V10" software releases, using any of a flash drive, SD card, and a Raspberry Pi Zero-W. These alerts went away entirely after a few further software updates, while using the same hardware media.
I do concur with the conclusion that this is a software issue. The amount of data being written doesn't come anywhere near saturating a USB 2 bus. I was getting "too slow" alerts in the first few "V10" software releases, using any of a flash drive, SD card, and a Raspberry Pi Zero-W. These alerts went away entirely after a few further software updates, while using the same hardware media.
rxlawdude
Active Member
I guess you guys might not be familiar with the chips used in flash drives and write/rewrite cycles. But hey, if a USB Flash Drive works for you, go for it. I know that NO ONE on Tesla's site who converted to SD + USB has reported the "too slow" message after the switch.
DopeGhoti
Active Member
SD cards and USB flash drives use exactly the same technology. At the initial V10 release, I started getting the error. I tried converting from straight USB to SD card, and then SSD drive, and then the RasPiZeroW solution and continued to get the error. After a certain late 2019 software update whose version I do not recall, I stopped getting the error.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
No, we really are.
We're also familiar with the actual amount of data being written- which is why we know this isn't at all an issue and that even cheap flash will be good for years and decent flash good (in either keys or sdcards, as flash is flash in either format) longer than you're likely to own the car
Already called you on this lie once, now you're telling it again?
Yes, people absolutely have had problems with that combo. Including the too slow error.
One just posted such right after your second telling of this lie... for another example-
"USB too slow for dash cam" error message
User RedModel3 had too slow on an SDcard (he initially says SSD, but when asked if he meant SDcard admits that's the case)
Further 2 other users who WERE getting it on flash drives report they STOPPED getting it after a software update.
Because, you know, the problem is the software
rxlawdude
Active Member
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
For some- yeah no further problems. For some they fixed them only temporarily. For others new updates introduced new problems they never had before (and all of these with no change of storage HW).
And of course many (myself included) haven't ever had any problems the whole time.
And all of that including just about every different dashcam related problem across just about every type of media. Including both USB keys and SD cards.
Because, of course, it's not a HW storage problem.
It appears that most regular flash usb drives have to occasionally pause writing to defragment and/or move data for wear leveling. Since Tesla software expects each file to be written to USB in a short period of time, it gives up writing if the drive pauses. Although Tesla can definitely improve this logic, the best thing to do is to get a high endurance microSD card and a USB card reader. I have not had any errors since I switched from a USB3 flash drive to a high endurance sd card. This will also provide much longer service before failing from wear.
rxlawdude
Active Member
From Teslatap.com, an authority I believe is well respected:
"SD Cards with Adapter
There are several adapters that convert an SD card for use as a USB stick. This allows the use of micro SD cards, often designed specifically for dashcam video with extended lifetimes and suitable temperature range over other flash drives. In addition, the adapter can be connected to a phone, tablet or PC to view the video.
The adapters above require an SD card, which is sold separately. All of the micro SD cards below are designed for dashcam use and are longer life MLC types." <- so a stick memory is not the same as an SD card.
Stick Style Flash Drives
Before V10, Tesla added a performance test and will shut out the drive if too slow. We and others are finding even some seemingly fast drives are being failed by Tesla’s speed test. On closer examination, the drives fail to maintain the write speeds at a sustained rate and can slow down dramatically as the drive fills up.
We’re now recommending using micro SD cards with an adapter, but we list the best stick drives that may work for you. Note the temperature range may be inadequate in your car."
From Everything you need to know about SLC, MLC, and TLC:
MLC (Multi Level Cell)
MLC flash as it's name suggests stores multi bits of data on one cell. The big advantage of this is the lower cost of manufacturing versus manufacturing SLC flash. The lower cost in flash production is generally passed onto you as the consumer, and for that reason is very popular among many brands. MLC flash is preferred for consumer SSDs for it's lower costs but the data read/write life is less in comparison to SLC at around 10,000 per cell.
Pros:
- Lower production costs are passed onto you the consumer.
- Is more reliable than TLC flash.
- Not as durable and reliable as SLC or enterprise SSDs.
- Everyday consumer use, gamers, and enthusiasts.
Storing 3 bits per cell, TLC flash is the cheapest form of flash to manufacture. The biggest disadvantage to this type of flash is that it is only suitable for consumer usage, and would not be able to meet the standards for industrial use. Read/write life cycles are considerably shorter at 3,000 to 5,000 cycles per cell.
Pros:
- Cheapest to manufacture which in turn leads to cheaper to market SSDs.
- Cells will survive considerably less read/write cycles compared to MLC NAND. This means that TLC flash is good for consumer use only.
- Everyday consumer use, web/email machines, netbooks, and tablets.
So, evidence is clear USB stick memory is (a) not spec'd for the temperatures seen in vehicles, and (b) mostly comprised of TLC technology.
I rest my case.
Yeah, my experience mirrors this. It works in one car and not the other. But if it’s a software issue, I don’t understand how this could be the case since both my 3s are running the same firmware.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Ah- appeal to authority- another fun logical fallacy!
USB keys can of course be connected to those same things.
And as noted, the "lifetime" thing is nonsense given how little data is being written.
Those "endurance" cards are meant for 4k cameras writing a LOT LOT LOT more data- often 24/7.
Because that's how math works.
Examples of said math have been provided in many previous threads.
Likewise many USB sticks actually offer better temp ranges than the SSDs many suggest.
Samsung advertises both their endurance SD cards and their BAR USB sticks as "temperature proof" for example.
Except, it is the same. You can buy USB keys with MLC too.
https://www.amazon.com/Mushkin-MKNUFDIM64GB-Impact-Flash-Drive/dp/B01A69S786
There's a 64 gig one for a little over 20 bucks. 128GB is just over 30.
Though as noted you don't really need MLC on a large storage device given how little data is being written by the car.
Even TLC is going to be good for MANY MANY years in typical use on a 128GB key, and a few decades on a 256 GB key. Because math.
MLC would be good for a generation or two I suppose if you want your grandkids to review your dashcam footage for some reason....
You should probably stop trying to discuss stuff it's increasingly obvious you don't actually understand.
Here since you apparently can't be bothered to look this up-
The car writes 7.2GB per hour. Let's say you use it 9 hours a day (8 hours at work, 1 hour driving)- that's 64.8 GB per day. Meaning a 128GB key will use up just 1 write cycle in just under 2 days.. or about 185 write cycles per year.
you just told us TLC was "only" good for 3000-5000 cycles.
3000/185= 16.2 years before you've exhausted the rated life.
A 256GB key would be over 30 years before it hits 3000 cycles.
Even running dashcam 24/7 would mean over 6 years to hit the low end of 3000 cycles (and nearer 10 years at 5000 cycles) on the 128GB key. 12-20 years on a 256GB key.
But somehow you think we "need" 10,000 cycle storage?
Or did you just not know how to do the math and decided to just parrot what a website told you?
Neither of those things is "clear"- instead they are you not really understanding the topic.
I notice you still haven't apologized for incorrectly claiming folks who use SDcards never have problems?
You really should since you're making it so poorly.
Presumably both cars aren't always being exposed to exactly the same inputs at the same time, so whatever is making the SW glitch on one car isn't doing it on another.
Kinda like how some folks with the same phone and same OS version have different issues (likewise PCs on the same version of windows though that introduces a lot more complexity)
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