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Used 2016 S vs. New Model Y

Discussion in 'Model S' started by daviddavid, Dec 28, 2019.

  1. daviddavid

    daviddavid Supporting Member

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    Both being in the low 50K range (AWD versions), I am considering a second car for my wife. Trying to weigh out the pros and cons of getting a used S vs. a new Y. Would love people's opinions on this.

    My wife would probably be a very late adopter of autonomous driving. She is simply scared of the whole concept. Over time though, she probably would use it.

    Some other fears/issues are MCU1 and knowing that it is in a way EOL plus the flash ram issue that will pop up. On the other hand, sounds like Musk is going to support a 2K upgrade to get it to MCU2.

    Would love to find an S with low 40's in mileage and pick up the 4 year warranty as well.

    Ideas? Feedback? Pros/Cons?

    Btw, I drive a 2016 90D. Short of wishing I had some more miles, I LOVE MY CAR. We can always take my car on road trips, so we could really get away with a 70D or 80D.
     
  2. turtlesz

    turtlesz Member

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    I would not consider a pre March 2018 Tesla at all. The UI on MCU1 is just too slow and not getting updates. It's frustrating. I got a p100d X this summer that was a new showroom demo car and it was a steal of a price but had MCU1. I thought there would be a upgrade path by now but I'm not as hopeful. The S will look much nicer than the Y, but the Y will have much better hardware that will make the experience leagues better.
     
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  3. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Well-Known Member

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    Instead of asking us, it would be much wiser to ask your Wife which she would prefer:)
     
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  4. rory breaker

    rory breaker Member

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    New model y.
    I’ve owned a tesla that’s 3yrs old and it’s not the same as having a new one with all the new tech. Like an iPhone 7 vs 11. If that’s important to you, get whatever’s newest.
     
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  5. Ostrichsak

    Ostrichsak Active Member

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    What do you mean not getting updates? BOTH of my MCU1 cars have been getting updates while others with MCU2 cars are crying on the forums days/weeks later because they didn't. I think there's valid differences between the two cars to discuss w/o making up stuff that's not accurate.

    You pay a premium for MCU2 in terms of tens of thousands of dollars due to how much newer of a vehicle you need to buy to get it and I for one don't think it's worth it. I've owned three of the "old clapped out" Model S cars and LOVE them... especially given the price point at which I can buy them at compared to MCU2 cars.

    There's a car for everyone so buy what you can afford and you'll likely love it especially if you're transitioning from an ICE vehicle of any type.
     
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  6. turtlesz

    turtlesz Member

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    Just from my experience. I have the 3 LR and more recently added the P100D X which was built March 2018. The voice commands lag in the X, the maps and route planning are much much slower. Planning a socal to NorCal trip with charging stops takes much longer and often fails in the X and only takes seconds in the 3. When scrolling for music to listen to it lags much more. It's like comparing a iPhone 3g vs a newer gen one. The entertainment features aren't being added to the MCU1 cars. Mine had ap2.5 so I have the full dashcam but most pre 2017 cars will only have ap2 and won't get the full dash cam features.

    Also the newer Tesla's have better Regen and can do true single pedal driving. Capable of faster supercharging. After owning both and regularly using both cars it becomes apparent the 3 is Tesla's future and the S/X will be legacy cars soon enough until they revamp the charging and battery chemistry. They are still excellent but aren't high in priority for the newer features.
     
  7. Ostrichsak

    Ostrichsak Active Member

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    I never said there weren't differences but saying that older MCU1 cars are "not getting updates" is something entirely different. That phrasing would indicate that Tesla has reached EOL on the MCU1 platform and is no longer updating it. The MCU1 hardware isn't capable of some of the newer features but they're still getting updates. Saying they're "not getting updates" insinuates they're no longer supported which isn't the case.

    Your iPhone 3g vs a new iPhone analogy doesn't apply because the old iPhone is no longer supported and hasn't been in many years. It has many security vulnerabilities as such and that's why I wouldn't use one. MCU1 doesn't fit that analogy. A more applicable analogy would be like an iPhone 10 versus the new iPhone 11 since both still are supported devices. Sure you get 10% better performance and features but that comes at a cost which many don't find worth the price tag. Many opt for the 90% device at half or less the price tag that may reach EOL a year or so sooner but the up-front value is better.
     
  8. Simon_Emes

    Simon_Emes Member

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    Have an mcu1 2016. Dont listen to those used to mcu2. Of course it is faster, but 1 is absolutely usable, the best nav and interface I've had in any car including the big luxury brands. So it boils down to which body style you prefer. For me the 3 was too small, the y would probably fit the family bill much better. Can't comment on your situation, however if possible get the newest one - it will charge faster and ride smoother as far as my experience goes.
     
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  9. TonyT

    TonyT Member

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    MCU1 flash ram is not an issue ;) we have a few different threads on recovery and preventive upgrade. So don't let that be a factor. With that said I plan to drive my S for another 350k miles...

    Shiny and new is nice. But for me, having a few more dollars in the bank is nicer.. Tesla's are basically technology items. My recommendation for tech always is buy what you need to use, not what wont be outdated since tech is outdated the minute you open it.
     
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  10. daviddavid

    daviddavid Supporting Member

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    Some more data points. I really like the S over the 3. Can't say as much for the Y since I haven't seen it in person. I do like the chrome on the S and will miss it on the Y. I understand MCU1 is not EOL yet, but the day will come. It would not surprise me that in the next couple of years if they freeze the MCU1 codebase. I cannot expect Tesla to support the MCU1 hardware forever.

    With that said, I do appreciate the different opinions. As for my wife's opinion, she doesn't like the style of the Y compared to that of the S. She is though a very practical person and wouldn't let that completely sway her decision.

    We have also considered a used X, but those seem to be very rare for some reason. Plus the doors scare the heck out of me if they were ever out of warranty.
     
  11. P100D_Me

    P100D_Me Member

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    MCU1 cars get updates but they don't get all features pushed out in the updates, that is the difference.
     
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  12. Ostrichsak

    Ostrichsak Active Member

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    That's what I'm saying. There's a MASSIVE difference between getting updates that are missing a few resource-intensive features that the older hardware can't handle and not receiving updates at all anymore. EOL or unsupported is a totally different animal. It signifies a locked software state and nothing new coming. At that point it may be a few fixes and security patches moving forward but not much more than that.

    Nobody really knows if/when Tesla will reach this state with the older cars but it would come sooner if it happened at all. Now that they're pushing the same firmware to two different vehicles with two totally different MCU's (MCU1 & MCU2) dropping some features is to be expected. This has been going on even before MCU2 came out depending on AP versions and a few other things. Nothing new really.

    In fact, this split update path allows them to keep supporting the older hardware cars with new features and updates so it's not a bad thing, quite the opposite in fact. If Tesla ever EOL's the early cars that will be a sad, sad day and will kind of set the precedent for EVs moving forward.

    This is why it's important IMHO that Tesla not do this anytime soon or (ideally) at all. It forces competition to keep updating their cars indefinitely too rather than abandon them on generation life cycles the way they likely would w/o Tesla setting the bar.
     
  13. rory breaker

    rory breaker Member

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    Beating this to death unnecessarily. Simply put...
    If you are a tech person, and you expect things to work quickly, be very responsive, you want all the latest/best - get a y/3/something new vs a 2016. If you value that to the degree you care when displays are sluggish, or load times are unnecessarily long...you will care and your “new” car won’t feel so new. If that stuff doesn’t bother you, sure a 2016 will function and function fine. Great way to get into a Tesla at a lower cost. It will be sluggish and slightly not as feature rich as the new cars, but yes, it will function. Literally the first thing I noticed about my 2019 vs 2016 was the night/day difference in how the screen/voice/cameras/etc function. I value that, so I noticed. If you do too, you will too.
     
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  14. Ostrichsak

    Ostrichsak Active Member

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    Coming from non-Tesla vehicles to my first (2013 Model S) I can tell you that the level of tech was enough to scratch my tech itch and then some. That car didn't even have autopilot, hill hold or a motorized closing charge port door. Saying that if you're a tech person you have to buy a new car or you'll be unhappy isn't accurate. I'm proof of that. Of course you noticed the difference in loading and all of the little things because you just spent a boat load of money to gain about 10% in performance and whiz-bang features. You really wanted to see a difference to justify what you spent which is going to skew your experience. For most, even the first few years the car was made will blow them away based on whatever ICE car they're coming from. I tell people to get like a 2014-2016 for their first EV and non have been disappointed especially when you look at the difference in price. You're talking about ~$40k cars versus ~$80k cars and you're NOT getting 2x the car.
     
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  15. swegman

    swegman Active Member

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    Owners with voltage capped batteries and/or reduced charging rates wish Tesla had frozen the MCU1 codebase before they went ahead and crippled our cars.
     
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  16. rory breaker

    rory breaker Member

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    How can you judge someone’s intentions and mode of operation without actually knowing the person? If it makes you feel better to say I needed to justify what I spent, that’s cool, whatever works for you. I guess you can continue to debate yourself?

    As I said, for those looking for someone speaking from real world experience of owning both a 2016 and a new car - if you care to the degree I describe, you’ll care, and it would be enough, for me, to not be interested in a 2016 vs a new one. Simple as that.
     
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  17. computerchuck

    computerchuck Supporting Member

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    #17 computerchuck, Dec 28, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
    My two cents. From my signature you’ll see my conclusions. Here’s why.

    Model S advantages
    1. Premium car. It’s Tesla’s flagship. Feels and looks fantastic. Beautiful and appreciated by all car lovers. It’s special and will always be. Becoming an iconic legend. It speaks to everyone. Nothing like it.
    2. Dual displays. The single display is a bit ahead of its time as it will be better suited for Level 3 and 4 autonomous driving. Put another way, current driving experience is definitely more suited for dual displays. The S and X definitely enjoy that and is preferred by myself hands down. I really love it.

    Model S disadvantages
    1. All top end luxury cars suffer from cost to value exponential curve.
    2. MCU1 is lacking. Maybe a retrofit option will arrive, but will probably be at a premium price. I think too much risk for the return of value. YMMV
    3. Long car. Going to be more difficult to park in the garage and in public parking areas. Also won’t have a tight turning radius. Noticeable in U-turn situations.
    4. Low to the ground. After ripping off my front bumper when pulling away from my parking sport, I soon realized how low my Model S truly was from the ground. Also tends to scrape the ground getting in and out of driveways. Can be managed with adjustable suspension, but not practical for every situation.
    5. Low to the ground #2. I’m over 50 now and for me getting in and out several times everyday isn’t a big problem, but it definitely wasn’t enjoyable. This may not be an issue for your wife depending on her age, height and weight. My small, 4 foot 11 inch wife had no problems. :). Again, YMMV
    6. Pretty much software feature locked. Some small things will still happened, but sentry mode and similar features will never happen.
    7. Slower charging

    Model Y advantages
    1. By almost all accounts, it’s more bang for the buck, at least physically for your dollar. 2. Better tech, batteries, AP, your going to enjoy the features for years to come and further improvements and enhancements with software updates that are yet to exist.
    3. Will have a higher resale value, even from Model 3. The market currently dictates that a compact SUV is more desired than a sedan. Not close in this department.
    4. Easier to park
    5. Easier U-turns
    6. Higher off the ground to avoid problems with parking curbs
    7. Easier to get in and out of
    8. More practical vehicle for small families
    9. Fast charging rates, less wait at a super charger
    10. Sentry mode, games, streaming videos (MCU1)

    Hope these words inspire and enlighten your mind in a some small way.
    Chuck
     
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  18. daviddavid

    daviddavid Supporting Member

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    Chuck, thanks for the time for this long post. This really is where my head is atm. The practical side of me says the Y. The cool side of me says the S. You are right. The S just stands out. There is nothing like it. Does one sacrifice tech for style? Does one pay a premium for a used car knowing that it is tech bound because of its MCU? In the grand scheme of things, 2k is not the end of the world for an upgrade cost to MCU2 though. Either way, I guess it is a good problem and one that I feel privileged to have.
     
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  19. am_dmd

    am_dmd Member

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    The one question that I get asked most is how long it takes to charge (charge gate) and how far can you drive (range gate)? Since that Tesla catching fire video Tesla has significantly nerfed charging rate and taken away range for some select few older vehicles without any kind of explanation. Personally for me now my Tesla is practically useless for any road trips and I would not purchase any Tesla again. I just don't have any trust in this company any more. I still love driving this car but will not spend any more on another one and will keep an open eye on newer EV's.
    I read here often that Model 3 owners are the target millennials and Tesla would not want to upset that crowd so hopefully similar analogy can be applied to MY ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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  20. Cheburashka

    Cheburashka Active Member

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    I wouldn't buy the first model year of any car from any manufacturer.

    Early adopters always pay the price in terms of missing out on improvements, price cuts, incentives, etc
     
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