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Used FSD Question

Discussion in 'Model X' started by HyperionMark, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. HyperionMark

    HyperionMark Member

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    Can a 2017 X with FSD do everything that a 2021 X can do? What about the big FSD software upgrade right around the corner?
     
  2. glide

    glide Active Member

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    Yes. For now.
     
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  3. Hovscorpion1

    Hovscorpion1 Member

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    Unfortunately we can not give a accurate answer to your question.

    We would need to first confirm what infotainment screen is present on the 2017 Model X. If the vehicle in question does not have the entertainment features, then FSD on this particular Model X will not be the same as the FSD on a 2021 Model. The vehicle will function the same, however the driving visualization will be absent. It would be like playing a PS1 game where everyone else is on PS5 with 8K/120fps/Ray-Tracing.

    Most likely, the 2017 Model X will need the infotainment upgrade currently priced at $2,500+taxes
     
  4. HyperionMark

    HyperionMark Member

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    Why would Tesla advertise all 2017 Used X's as Full Self Driving Capability then?
     
  5. gaswalla

    gaswalla Model S,3,X.. CT with Austin delivery

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    Technically, mcu1 and autopilot hardware 3 work together. So, it is advertised as fsd. In reality, folks say that mcu1 cannot handle the combo. If you are ok spending 2500 on the mcu2 upgrade, the used 2017 with fsd will literally have the same computer hardware as a 2021 (only difference is the cameras are a bit upgraded since 2017, but doesn’t seem to matter besides sharper dashcam videos). This week FSD goes to a 10k price, I suspect the used car you’re looking at will be a great deal
     
  6. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

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    #6 Tam, Oct 26, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
    No. If your S/X is produced prior to 3/2018 then it came with MCU1. If that car has paid for FSD already, you can get HW3 upgrade for no additional cost in theory or in the advertisement.

    In practice, HW3 demands too much calculation power from MCU1 that it cripples MCU1. You need a new competent MCU2 to do the routing/navigation for HW3. So it is questionable to be able to have a functional FSD with MCU1 and HW3. At the current rate, your FSD will miss exits and turns because MCU1 can't calculate the routing/navigation fast enough for HW3.

    Most just pay another $2,500 to upgrade to MCU2.
     
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  7. am_dmd

    am_dmd Member

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    Also I believe newer ones have different radar? If so does anyone have any experience comparing both old vs new AP?
     
  8. gaswalla

    gaswalla Model S,3,X.. CT with Austin delivery

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    I think the radar is the same on all the AP2-3 cars so far (new one hinted at coming next year). you may be confusing ap1 vs ap2-3
     
  9. Tam

    Tam Well-Known Member

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    #9 Tam, Oct 26, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
    Radar for HW1.0 and HW2.0 = 525Ft
    Radar for HW2.5 and above = 558Ft

    Cameras for HW2.0 = RCCC (the color looks terrible for human taste)
    Cameras for HW2.5 and above = RCCB (the color looks more tolerable for human)
     
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  10. Kentucky3

    Kentucky3 Member

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    Because, with the right retrofit, that car is CAPABLE of FSD. If you were looking at an AP1 car, they ARE NOT capable, and never will be, of FSD.
     
  11. HyperionMark

    HyperionMark Member

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    This discussion is not about AP1 vehicles.
     
  12. dmurphy

    dmurphy Woof.

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    No.

    Anywhere Tesla uses the phrase “Full Self Driving Capability” - it is equipped with the FSD hardware AND software. It means it already has the FSD package. That is a point of confusion for many but the phrase “Full Self Driving Capability” has a specific meaning at Tesla ... it’s not just “capable”, it does have the package.

    You are right that AP1.0 vehicles cannot have FSD.
     
  13. mpkelly20

    mpkelly20 Member

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    How can this be so if MCU1 is not capable of FSD?
     
  14. HyperionMark

    HyperionMark Member

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    That's my main question. Are they selling any used 2017 Model X that says "Full Self Driving Capability" with MCU2? Seems like it would have to be.
     
  15. dmurphy

    dmurphy Woof.

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    The MCU is just the display. The FSD software runs on a separate computer.

    Now, MCU1 can be slow as molasses but it's functional. With FSD.
     
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  16. rush6410

    rush6410 Member

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    Doesn't sound like you are speaking from experience.
     
  17. rush6410

    rush6410 Member

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    It is absolutely compatible.
     
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  18. rush6410

    rush6410 Member

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    FSD works fine from an FSD perspective. The lag with MCU1 only impacts the MCU functions and not FSD. I have been using all available FSD features since June with no issues. There is lag when using Teslacam with an USB drive installed in a port regardless if you are recording or not. The fix is to not install the USB drive disabling Teslacam. The lag goes away. Personally, the lag doesn't bother me. It is only when initiating navigation for the first time during a drive. Or, initiating voice controls for the first time during a drive. I have a routine when I start a drive. I immediately initiate voice commands and let it load then cycle through until it auto cancels. Then it works great after that. I do the same with navigation. It seems like it is a caching issue. Takes longer to initially start those two modules.
     
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  19. HyperionMark

    HyperionMark Member

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    How big of lag are we talking about?
     
  20. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    With AP1, the AP software ran on the console processor (MCU1).

    When AP2 was introduced, the AP software initially ran on the console processor - and was then shifted to run on the new FSD/AP processor.

    With FSD, the software is running on the new HW3 processor. The MCU is used only for the user interface and FSD visualization.

    MCU2 has a single processor that drives the console and dashboard displays.

    But MCU1 has two processors - one for the console display and one for the dashboard display - both processors are powerful enough to display HD video. Even if the MCU1 console processor is sluggish, the dashboard processor isn't that busy, because most of what's being displayed is static text and images. The dashboard CPU/GPU are probably fast enough to display what is seen on MCU2 dashboards.

    Any differences between MCU1 and MCU2 vehicles with FSD is more likely due to software source code compatibility. Especially for graphics intensive applications, different source code may be needed to implement visualization on MCU1 vs. MCU2. And because the percentage of Tesla vehicles with MCU1 and FSD is small (and getting smaller), Tesla has decreasing incentive to continue re-implementing software to run on the MCU1 processors.

    Today, I don't see any significant differences between our MCU1/FSD S and MCU2/FSD X - and can't justify spending $2.5K to upgrade our 2017 S, especially since we use the radio. However, if Tesla does add the ability to retain FM/HD/XM radio with the Infotainment Upgrade, will strongly consider upgrading our MCU1 - and get access to the full FSD visualizations along with the newer features only available on MCU2.
     
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