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Used Tesla unlimited mileage powertrain warranty

ibench85lbs

Member
Oct 22, 2019
7
0
Texas
Hi guys,

I am looking for an used 2016 model X from Tesla website. I don't really care about the free unlimited supercharging and the only thing I need would be the 8 year- unlimited mileage drive unit and battery warranty.

Look like they are no longer offering it, correct? Yes, I drive 60k miles per year so 100k miles warranty would be useless in 2 years. Lol.

Thank you for any input,

Bench.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,497
8,644
Visalia, CA
...Look like they are no longer offering it, correct?

No, that is not correct.

The used car warranty says:

"The balance of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty, including the original Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty, applies to used vehicles and overlaps with this Limited Warranty."

The original new warrant is infinity miles within 8 years so with this used warranty, you get the balance of it.

If the car has run one million miles in the past 2 years, you still have infinity miles left for the next 6 years.
 

ibench85lbs

Member
Oct 22, 2019
7
0
Texas
Screenshot_20191022-151210~3.png
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,497
8,644
Visalia, CA
Dear Tam,

That's a great new for me. May I ask what is this and Why?

4 years and only 50k miles

And 2 years 100k miles

Those two above are also cited on the same page:

The used car warranty says:

"Used Vehicle Limited Warranty

The Used Vehicle Limited Warranty applies to vehicles that are under four years old and have less than 50,000 miles (80,000 km) on the odometer at the time of Tesla’s delivery. Used vehicles are protected by this Limited Warranty for 4 years or 50,000 miles (80,000 km), whichever comes first, starting from your delivery date.


Used Vehicle Extended Limited Warranty

The Used Vehicle Extended Limited Warranty applies to vehicles that are over 4 years old or have over 50,000 miles (80,000 km) on the odometer but under 6 years old and have less than 100,000 miles (160,000 km) on the odometer at the time of Tesla’s delivery.

This Used Vehicle Extended Limited Warranty provides coverage for 2 years or up to a maximum of 100,000 total miles (160,000 total km) on the vehicle's odometer, whichever comes first."

But it further clarifies that the exception for 4 years or 2 years and limited miles is: Battery and Drive Unit:

"The balance of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty, including the original Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty, applies to used vehicles and overlaps with this Limited Warranty."

What is this? Like new warranty, the used warranty only covers fewer years and miles for everything EXCEPT for battery and drive unit.

Why? To clarify that this used warranty is almost like new one except with fewer years and miles depending on age and odometer EXCEPT for battery and drive unit.
 

ibench85lbs

Member
Oct 22, 2019
7
0
Texas
Dear @Tam May I ask which battery pack is proven to be less problematic? I saw some posts about the 90kW pack battery scandal. I wouldn't mind getting a 75 or 85 if it doesn't give me a problem down the road.

Should I opt-in for the dual-motor version? Pros and Cons?

I appreciate your help, Tam.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,497
8,644
Visalia, CA
...90kW pack battery scandal...

I wouldn't worry about battery scandals because you are covered!

Range is King!

...Should I opt-in for the dual-motor version? Pros and Cons?

For magnetless motors (older Tesla), dual-motor is more efficient and gets you more range.

It's opposite with newer Tesla (Model 3 and Raven) that uses magnets: Single motor is more efficient than dual ones.

Better traction with dual motor but you can skip it if you don't experience icy or slippery road conditions.
 

Pale_Rider

Member
Jul 28, 2016
675
755
Houston, TX
Well in the raven S/X that’s not quite right. Firstly, only dual motor cars, secondly the induction motor plus the permanent magnet motor combo is more efficient than the previous dual induction motors. The front permanent magnet motor is more efficient than the previous front motor and since you can turn the rear induction motor off on the highway, you do get a more efficient drive (hence the longer range with the same 100Kwh pack.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,497
8,644
Visalia, CA
...Well in the raven S/X that’s not quite right..

There's no question that magnet motors are more efficient than AC only motors (which are great for performance).

But if there's a choice in magnet motors for either single or dual, EPA says single is more efficient.

There's no single motor for Raven so we have to take a look at Model 3:

upload_2019-10-23_23-0-46.png


RWD Model 3 is rated as 130 MPGe while its AWD is 116 MPGe.

It's used to be the other way around with AC motors without magnets:

upload_2019-10-23_23-2-33.png



Tesla Model S 75kWh RWD is less efficient at 98 MPGe while its AWD is more efficient at 103 MPe.
 

mxnym

Active Member
Mar 9, 2018
1,091
461
Bloomington, IN
There's no question that magnet motors are more efficient than AC only motors (which are great for performance).

But if there's a choice in magnet motors for either single or dual, EPA says single is more efficient.

There's no single motor for Raven so we have to take a look at Model 3:

View attachment 469413

RWD Model 3 is rated as 130 MPGe while its AWD is 116 MPGe.

It's used to be the other way around with AC motors without magnets:

View attachment 469414


Tesla Model S 75kWh RWD is less efficient at 98 MPGe while its AWD is more efficient at 103 MPe.
You may be correlating without causation. The motors in the older S and X were different sizes and efficiencies, and the more efficient motor was the optional smaller front one. The gain in efficiency came from only using the more efficient motor some of the time, and this gain was greater than the efficiency cost of the additional motor's weight. When it comes to the PMM in the 3, they may both be the same motor (I don't know). In such a case, the added weight of a second motor would obviously reduce efficiency, but that wouldn't be because "one motor is more efficient when they are PMM" it would be because "one motor is less heavy than two motors regardless of whether or not they are PMM."
 
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Pale_Rider

Member
Jul 28, 2016
675
755
Houston, TX
You may be correlating without causation. The motors in the older S and X were different sizes and efficiencies, and the more efficient motor was the optional smaller front one. The gain in efficiency came from only using the more efficient motor some of the time, and this gain was greater than the efficiency cost of the additional motor's weight. When it comes to the PMM in the 3, they may both be the same motor (I don't know). In such a case, the added weight of a second motor would obviously reduce efficiency, but that wouldn't be because "one motor is more efficient when they are PMM" it would be because "one motor is less heavy than two motors regardless of whether or not they are PMM."

And on the highway the PMM can’t be shut off, so you are always running two. On the SX the induction motor can be cut off which significantly boosts efficiency, in addition to the more efficient front motor.
 

mxnym

Active Member
Mar 9, 2018
1,091
461
Bloomington, IN
And on the highway the PMM can’t be shut off, so you are always running two. On the SX the induction motor can be cut off which significantly boosts efficiency, in addition to the more efficient front motor.
Do you have a source for this claim? I was originally under this impression as well, but only from having read it here or on reddit. However, I've since also read that a PMM can spin freely the same as induction motors can, and in such a case, I don't understand why couldn't it be turned off...
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,497
8,644
Visalia, CA
I am in for the CPO model X ( considering S as well but not the 3).

So will dual motors be more reliable as they share the workload?

Dual motors model is more reliable in terms of more friction on the road to reduce slipping.

Tesla also promises that you can still limp your way when one of the 2 motors is dead but that seems not to be true only if the dead motor is the front one and not the rear one.

For older Tesla (prior to Raven and Model 3) that uses AC motors without permanent magnets, the added weight of a second motor adds more efficiency and range:

Model S 60 RWD=210mi
Model S 60 AWD=218mi


Model S 70 RWD=230mi
Model S 70 AWD=240mi

Model S 75 RWD=249mi
Model S 75 AWD=259mi

Model S 85 RWD=265mi
Model S 85 AWD=270mi
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,497
8,644
Visalia, CA
...You may be correlating without causation...

I could be confused about cause and effect.

I look up a little more.

Motor technology from Model 3 helps Tesla boost Model S range 10%

"The dual-motor versions of the Model 3 have an induction motor in the front and a permanent magnet synchronous reluctance motor in the back. The Model S and Model X switch this around, putting an induction motor in the back and a PMSRM in the front."


I guess that's why Model 3 AWD eats more range because its front is an induction motor which is good for performance but less efficient than permanent magnet synchronous reluctance motor.


...And on the highway the PMM can’t be shut off, so you are always running two. On the SX the induction motor can be cut off which significantly boosts efficiency, in addition to the more efficient front motor.

It sounds that Model 3 can cut off its front motor because it's an induction motor.
 

Pale_Rider

Member
Jul 28, 2016
675
755
Houston, TX
I could be confused about cause and effect.

I look up a little more.

Motor technology from Model 3 helps Tesla boost Model S range 10%

"The dual-motor versions of the Model 3 have an induction motor in the front and a permanent magnet synchronous reluctance motor in the back. The Model S and Model X switch this around, putting an induction motor in the back and a PMSRM in the front."


I guess that's why Model 3 AWD eats more range because its front is an induction motor which is good for performance but less efficient than permanent magnet synchronous reluctance motor.




It sounds that Model 3 can cut off its front motor because it's an induction motor.
Both motors in the 3 are PMM.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
9,497
8,644
Visalia, CA
Both motors in the 3 are PMM.

From the horse's mouth:


Elon Musk
Verified account @elonmusk


Working on Model 3 dual motor all-wheel drive & performance versions. Driving feel is amazing. Aiming to release config late tonight.

1:52 PM - 19 May 2018
1,322 replies3,697 retweets42,599 likes



    1. New conversation

    2. Ryan McCaffrey‏Verified account @DMC_Ryan 19 May 2018
      Replying to @elonmusk
      Elon, I suppose this will be answered one way or another eventually, but many in the Tesla community are curious of what the physical setup of Performance in particular is, i.e. is it one smaller PM motor & one larger PM, or a large induction motor in the rear and a PM in front?

      6 replies11 retweets299 likes

    3. Elon Musk‏Verified account @elonmusk 19 May 2018
      AC induction front & switched reluctance, partial permanent magnet rear. Silicon Carbide inverters in both. Performance drive units are lot sorted for highest sigma output & get double the burn-in.

      66 replies134 retweets1,532 likes

Also from the Moroney sticker from Electrek.co on the first listed 2 features on the left:


Three phase, four pole, induction motor (front)
Three phase, six pole, internal permanent magnet motor (rear)


Screen-Shot-2018-07-15-at-8.59.39-AM.jpg
 
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