Using FSD off highway is suicide

[SanDiegoM3]

Watch the video below and use the skip ahead 10 seconds feature throughout until you get to the unprotected lefts.

Frankly, it’s shocking that three front facing cameras couldn’t discern oncoming traffic speed and the time to complete the necessary maneuvers. He had to stop the car several times to prevent a head on collision at 50mph. This is simply dangerous.

Key times are 1:50 (safe), 2:20 (safe), 2:45 (debatable unsafe), 3:20 (safe), 3:50 (near head on collision other drivers afraid), 5:15 (safe), 6:40 (safe), 7:20 (unsafe without enough acceleration), 8:15 (proper gap management turns into head on collision), 9:10 (unsafe likely collision)

Main Forward Camera: Max distance 150m with 50° field of view
Narrow Forward Camera: Max distance 250m with 35° field of view
Wide Forward Camera: Max distance 60m with 150° field of view

/I’m an FSD owner

 

[TresLA]

I’m not too worried about it, because I see using FSD beta like using AP: There are situations where basic AP has improved after a version update (speed approaching certain off ramps used to be way too fast for the upcoming curve), and others basic AP still can’t handle (slight road curvature & crest at an intersection causes car to be unsure which lane is the correct one after the intersection). Similar to these, I figure we all instinctively learn which circumstances we can trust it more and which ones we will need to be even more likely to override it. Eventually, it will hopefully get better and become another “I remember back in the day when AP couldn’t handle this curve/intersection/etc., but now it’s fine”

 

[buyleonard]

If you actually count out the seconds it takes for the Tesla to make the turn and how much time it had before the next car, I don't think any of them would have caused a crash. Not that I would have trusted it, just like Chuck I would have hit the brakes because you can't be sure yet that it won't hesitate in the middle.

 

[qdeathstar]

Breaking news: beta level 2 driving assist software isn’t level 5 autonomous driving.

 

[EVNow]

Watch the video below and use the skip ahead 10 seconds feature throughout until you get to the unprotected lefts.

If you are so afraid of unprotected lefts - take over. They are quite rare in the routes I use (esp. any chance of traffic).

BTW, I always felt using NOA is suicidal - given the speeds and almost no time to correct errors.

 

[SanDiegoM3]

If you actually count out the seconds it takes for the Tesla to make the turn and how much time it had before the next car, I don't think any of them would have caused a crash. Not that I would have trusted it, just like Chuck I would have hit the brakes because you can't be sure yet that it won't hesitate in the middle.

or turn you into oncoming traffic on the street you’re turning into?

 

[Bob Denny]

It's suicide to use on the highway. I am so sick of its brain dead unsafe driving behavior. Every time I make a highway/freeway trip and use autosteer, and especially navigate on autopilot, I have to take over quite often to avoid an unsafe maneuver. Where do I start? (1) Driving in the right lane with merging traffic (many unsafe variations), (2) driving into the death zone alongside a semi and between it and the center divider with another vehicle just in front of the semi so no way out, (3) unsafe lane changes (oh so many), (4) cruising in a car's blind spot, (5) crazy behavior when encountering a lane split (when your lane becomes 2 lanes to make room for an upcoming interchange), (6) when the HOV lane you're in ends and you need to merge right, (7) lack of anticipation when things are looking bad more than 6 car length ahead, (8) occasional sudden braking for no apparent reason (how to get rear-ended), and then there's always the attention grabbing but totally meaningless "Park Assist Not Available" BEEPBEEPBEEP alert. I predict that "FSD" will never become mainstream. I hell no would never trust it on city streets. It ain't self driving if you have to hang onto the wheel... it is toy, a $10,000 toy. Damn it.

 

[idriveacar]

It's suicide to use on the highway. I am so sick of its brain dead unsafe driving behavior. Every time I make a highway/freeway trip and use autosteer, and especially navigate on autopilot, I have to take over quite often to avoid an unsafe maneuver. Where do I start? (1) Driving in the right lane with merging traffic (many unsafe variations), (2) driving into the death zone alongside a semi and between it and the center divider with another vehicle just in front of the semi so no way out, (3) unsafe lane changes (oh so many), (4) cruising in a car's blind spot, (5) crazy behavior when encountering a lane split (when your lane becomes 2 lanes to make room for an upcoming interchange), (6) when the HOV lane you're in ends and you need to merge right, (7) lack of anticipation when things are looking bad more than 6 car length ahead, (8) occasional sudden braking for no apparent reason (how to get rear-ended), and then there's always the attention grabbing but totally meaningless "Park Assist Not Available" BEEPBEEPBEEP alert. I predict that "FSD" will never become mainstream. I hell no would never trust it on city streets. It ain't self driving if you have to hang onto the wheel... it is toy, a $10,000 toy. Damn it.

Just don't use NOA. I personally am not a fan. I do like the feature where it will execute a lane merge when I tell it to. Otherwise, I treat AP as a highly advanced lane keep assist + adaptive cruise control. I don't grant it any more intelligence than that, and am therefore not disappointed when it doesn't do something I feel it should.

But most of the stuff you're complaining about should actually be fixed once FSD beta replaces NOA. The FSD beta demonstrates a much higher level of intelligence in regards to choosing lanes and dealing with things such as lanes that split or merge.

Almost ironically, as the software stands today with 10.0.1, I see the advances from the "autosteer on city streets" stack to be of the most potential value on highways. It's far from being safe enough to be anything other than an annoyance on city streets, but the added intelligence should actually fill in the gaps that production AP and NOA have on highways.

Really looking forward to the single stack. If my instinct is right and AP on highways (even ones with stoplights) becomes essentially flawless, maybe Tesla could release that and lock it down to highways only to prevent people from abusing it on city streets, until it's actually demonstrated to be adequately safe on those kinds of roads.

(somewhat unrelated, but I really don't feel like FSD beta on city streets is anywhere safe enough for anything even resembling a wide release right now... if Tesla isn't careful, somebody is going to die, much sooner than the projected 100M+ miles)

 

[LastGas]

If there were no interventions required, it wouldn't be beta software anymore.

Note that there is no FSD on the highway yet. For highway driving the car reverts to the production stack, which is just Enhanced Autopilot.

 

[idriveacar]

If there were no interventions required, it wouldn't be beta software anymore.

It's beta until Tesla says it isn't. If it can perform highways with few to no interventions, yet still requires interventions on city streets, my point that it is still useful, yet still firmly in "beta" territory.

Note that there is no FSD on the highway yet. For highway driving the car reverts to the production stack, which is just Enhanced Autopilot.

I thought my post was clear on this. My entire post is the observation that once FSD beta is meged into existing NOA on highways, there may be actual value in using it.

As it stands, it provides little value for driving on city streets as it looks quite a lot more stressful to drive with it on than with it off. But, the added intelligence could actually fill in the gaps of NOA, making NOA on highways actually useful for once.

 

[avs007]

As it stands, it provides little value for driving on city streets as it looks quite a lot more stressful to drive with it on than with it off. But, the added intelligence could actually fill in the gaps of NOA, making NOA on highways actually useful for once.

Personally, I questioned how "full self driving" would ever be feasible on city streets, particularly because I wasn't sure of how well it could judge cross traffic without a cross traffic camera/radar/etc. There are plenty of places around here, where you need to make lefts/rights onto a major street, etc.

 

[avs007]

The other thing I worry about, is that the DOT around here has placed curbs in A LOT of left turn lanes to prevent you from entering/exiting the left turn lane late... I worry that FSD will miscalculate the ingress into the turning lane and clip the curb, especially since most all of them around here have worn out or non-existent paint/reflectors.

 

[Bob Denny]

Just don't use NOA. I personally am not a fan. I do like the feature where it will execute a lane merge when I tell it to. Otherwise, I treat AP as a highly advanced lane keep assist + adaptive cruise control. I don't grant it any more intelligence than that, and am therefore not disappointed when it doesn't do something I feel it should.

I paid $10,000 for this?

But most of the stuff you're complaining about should actually be fixed once FSD beta replaces NOA. The FSD beta demonstrates a much higher level of intelligence in regards to choosing lanes and dealing with things such as lanes that split or merge.

Should??? Right.

Almost ironically, as the software stands today with 10.0.1, I see the advances from the "autosteer on city streets" stack to be of the most potential value on highways. It's far from being safe enough to be anything other than an annoyance on city streets, but the added intelligence should actually fill in the gaps that production AP and NOA have on highways.

Sorry, Detroit is already there, and their drivers don't have to double-button reboot every week or two.

Really looking forward to the single stack. If my instinct is right and AP on highways (even ones with stoplights) becomes essentially flawless, maybe Tesla could release that and lock it down to highways only to prevent people from abusing it on city streets, until it's actually demonstrated to be adequately safe on those kinds of roads.

Wishful thinking.

(somewhat unrelated, but I really don't feel like FSD beta on city streets is anywhere safe enough for anything even resembling a wide release right now... if Tesla isn't careful, somebody is going to die, much sooner than the projected 100M+ miles)

You and I are on the same page. Tesla is blowing smoke up our a**es. [not a happy customer for $10000 FSD in 2020]

 

[JHCCAZ]

The other thing I worry about, is that the DOT around here has placed curbs in A LOT of left turn lanes to prevent you from entering/exiting the left turn lane late... I worry that FSD will miscalculate the ingress into the turning lane and clip the curb, especially since most all of them around here have worn out or non-existent paint/reflectors.

That's an interesting point. We have some like that here, but far more of the painted-lines turn with no concrete median. I don't recall seeing any of those in the FSD videos so far, but you're right it would be critical not to miss that entrance.

 

[avs007]

That's an interesting point. We have some like that here, but far more of the painted-lines turn with no concrete median. I don't recall seeing any of those in the FSD videos so far, but you're right it would be critical not to miss that entrance.

Yeah, there's one by my house that is especially crazy, to the point that it's even nerve racking driving manually... The road has a 45mph speed limit, with a curbed center median with trees... As you approach the left turn, the curbed median has a cutout for you to jump into the center lane, which has a curb on both the left side AND the right side... So you can't miss the entrance... Since the road has a 45mph speed limit, and people frequently are going 55+, you sort of feel like you are in a slot car race, because you don't really want to jam the brakes while in the left lane, so you cut over into the turning lane and slow down at the same time, being careful to not graze the curbs. As you approach the actual left turn, the left curb disappears... So when you turn, you have to be careful to not accidentally clip the curb on the left.

And once you make the turn... There is a traffic circle ahead, that was designed very poorly. The center island is made of red bricks, and it surrounded by white cement trim, and then a white curb, with white cement strip surrounding the curb.... So if you aren't paying attention, (or if it's wet), you CANNOT SEE THE CURB, becuase the wet cement turns grey and blends with the cement road, so you can mistakenly think the red bricks is where the center island starts... As a result, there are black tire marks ALL OVER the white curb of the island.