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Using Superchargers for Local Charging

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please don't use a local Supercharger for routine charging unless you have absolutely no way of charging at your residence. When you own an EV you will find that it is simply much more convenient, almost in every case, to charge daily at home rather than visit a Supercharger. If you are considering buying an EV for the first time, before you get the car I recommend you figure out how to charge it at your residence.

^^^ +1

As a point of reference we've had a Model S for 2.5 years in the San Francisco Bay Area and have never used the closest 3 Superchargers (with the nearest only 6 miles away) but have used 6 in the 60-150 mile range. We have not done that in the altruistic belief that SCs only be used for long distance travel but cause that was most convenient with 240V charging at home.

^^^ I believe this is a fantastic example of what Tesla expects us to do.


I had a day not long ago with 300 miles of mostly close to home errands, the last a round trip of about 170 miles. Not having a supercharger nearby meant I had to plan a meal break (and a nap...) at a HPWC to make it work. A supercharger would have simplified my schedule on that (unusually hectic) day.

^^^ I feel for you on that particular day. I have a SuperCharger 4 miles from my house, and I probably would have splurged that day if it had been me in your situation. Mind, I don't have a Tesla yet.
 
Then don't buy the car if you can't charge it at home. It's that simple.

Jeff

Here we have, in the parlance of the day, a complete fail, and an evidently wholly uninformed, and perhaps unintentionally elitist fail at that.

Do note that Tesla is already on record with the following:

"If you do not have a way to charge at home or at work, you are welcome to buy a Model S and to use an SC to charge."

How do I know this? Because I asked Tesla before I placed my order. Why, it's that simple.

Do I prefer having to rely upon SCs? Not really. Who wouldn't rather waking up with a full charge every day? However, in practical terms, I end up trading off waiting in line to fill up at the Costco once a week for working or returning voicemails or enjoying a tasty spinach salad at the host property while charging at the SC. Also, as some of those of you who work late already know, getting to the Costco before the pumps close is sometimes a challenge - whereas the SCs are available 24/7.

Someday even harbors and marinas will have multiple HPWC-enabled parking spaces, despite the byzantine complexities of getting any infrastructural improvements whatsoever done along the California coast, no matter how environmentally friendly and forward-thinking. Until then, I appreciate Tesla's welcoming we, the non-garaged folk, with open arms.

Unlike, evidently, one or two of you *polite cough*.

Further, the canard that garaged owners use SCs to save a buck is largely overblown. If you want to have a target, consider livery owners. If I owned a livery concern, I'd be in line to buy every used Model S I could. And in the densest areas of the world (Orange County - Los Angeles County for example), a hard-working livery driver can make 4 round trips PER DAY between airports (John Wayne to LAX, for example). They're using SCs multiple times PER DAY. I'd start there *long before* chasing ghosts (garaged owners who supposedly charge locally - remember, for starters, that 90% of owners don't use SCs ever) or by suggesting that the non-garaged shouldn't buy Model S/X.

Happily, in the end, it is worth noting that 98% of SCs are wastelands and never reach saturation. With Tesla's commitment to DENSITY as well as to DISTANCE, combined with significant improvements in range and charging efficiency, and with the advent of the one thing Tesla can't create in-house (competition), all will be well.

Despite the persistent handwringing.
 
Here we have, in the parlance of the day, a complete fail, and an evidently wholly uninformed, and perhaps unintentionally elitist fail at that.

Do note that Tesla is already on record with the following:

"If you do not have a way to charge at home or at work, you are welcome to buy a Model S and to use an SC to charge."

How do I know this? Because I asked Tesla before I placed my order. Why, it's that simple.

Do I prefer having to rely upon SCs? Not really. Who wouldn't rather waking up with a full charge every day? However, in practical terms, I end up trading off waiting in line to fill up at the Costco once a week for working or returning voicemails or enjoying a tasty spinach salad at the host property while charging at the SC. Also, as some of those of you who work late already know, getting to the Costco before the pumps close is sometimes a challenge - whereas the SCs are available 24/7.

Someday even harbors and marinas will have multiple HPWC-enabled parking spaces, despite the byzantine complexities of getting any infrastructural improvements whatsoever done along the California coast, no matter how environmentally friendly and forward-thinking. Until then, I appreciate Tesla's welcoming we, the non-garaged folk, with open arms.

Unlike, evidently, one or two of you *polite cough*.

Further, the canard that garaged owners use SCs to save a buck is largely overblown. If you want to have a target, consider livery owners. If I owned a livery concern, I'd be in line to buy every used Model S I could. And in the densest areas of the world (Orange County - Los Angeles County for example), a hard-working livery driver can make 4 round trips PER DAY between airports (John Wayne to LAX, for example). They're using SCs multiple times PER DAY. I'd start there *long before* chasing ghosts (garaged owners who supposedly charge locally - remember, for starters, that 90% of owners don't use SCs ever) or by suggesting that the non-garaged shouldn't buy Model S/X.

Happily, in the end, it is worth noting that 98% of SCs are wastelands and never reach saturation. With Tesla's commitment to DENSITY as well as to DISTANCE, combined with significant improvements in range and charging efficiency, and with the advent of the one thing Tesla can't create in-house (competition), all will be well.

Despite the persistent handwringing.

LA county/Orange county - densest areas of the world? I think I know what you meant maybe...

People without charging shouldn't own EVs. It is that simple. jk of course. But the ideal owner has a charger. The experience is just that much more positive.
 
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Here we have, in the parlance of the day, a complete fail, and an evidently wholly uninformed, and perhaps unintentionally elitist fail at that.

Do note that Tesla is already on record with the following:

"If you do not have a way to charge at home or at work, you are welcome to buy a Model S and to use an SC to charge."

How do I know this? Because I asked Tesla before I placed my order. Why, it's that simple.

Do I prefer having to rely upon SCs? Not really. Who wouldn't rather waking up with a full charge every day? However, in practical terms, I end up trading off waiting in line to fill up at the Costco once a week for working or returning voicemails or enjoying a tasty spinach salad at the host property while charging at the SC. Also, as some of those of you who work late already know, getting to the Costco before the pumps close is sometimes a challenge - whereas the SCs are available 24/7.

Someday even harbors and marinas will have multiple HPWC-enabled parking spaces, despite the byzantine complexities of getting any infrastructural improvements whatsoever done along the California coast, no matter how environmentally friendly and forward-thinking. Until then, I appreciate Tesla's welcoming we, the non-garaged folk, with open arms.

Unlike, evidently, one or two of you *polite cough*.

Further, the canard that garaged owners use SCs to save a buck is largely overblown. If you want to have a target, consider livery owners. If I owned a livery concern, I'd be in line to buy every used Model S I could. And in the densest areas of the world (Orange County - Los Angeles County for example), a hard-working livery driver can make 4 round trips PER DAY between airports (John Wayne to LAX, for example). They're using SCs multiple times PER DAY. I'd start there *long before* chasing ghosts (garaged owners who supposedly charge locally - remember, for starters, that 90% of owners don't use SCs ever) or by suggesting that the non-garaged shouldn't buy Model S/X.

Happily, in the end, it is worth noting that 98% of SCs are wastelands and never reach saturation. With Tesla's commitment to DENSITY as well as to DISTANCE, combined with significant improvements in range and charging efficiency, and with the advent of the one thing Tesla can't create in-house (competition), all will be well.

Despite the persistent handwringing.

I stand by my comment without remorse, or a desire to retract. If you can't charge at home, don't buy the car. There, I said it again. Considering Elon has said, rather messily was the end result, that Tesla doesn't want locals using superchargers, I find it highly suspect that you got it in writing from Tesla that you can abuse this free privilege.

There are two things that really get under my skin about locals using superchargers. One, it takes up space(s) from those of us who actually use the network for it's intended use. Second, you're charging for free, all the time. That's simply not right. While Tesla has said, multiple times, that the electrical cost to them is rather trivial, that's not the point. While I expect some will disagree with me, I think charging exclusively on Tesla's dime is essentially theft or stealing electricity if you will.

Give an inch, and someone will take a mile... So I'll continue to say it...

If you can't charge at home, don't buy the car.

Jeff
 
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Reactions: SeanB-Model3
I stand by my comment without remorse, or a desire to retract. If you can't charge at home, don't buy the car. There, I said it again. Considering Elon has said, rather messily was the end result, that Tesla doesn't want locals using superchargers, I find it highly suspect that you got it in writing from Tesla that you can abuse this free privilege.

There are two things that really get under my skin about locals using superchargers. One, it takes up space(s) from those of us who actually use the network for it's intended use. Second, you're charging for free, all the time. That's simply not right. While Tesla has said, multiple times, that the electrical cost to them is rather trivial, that's not the point. While I expect some will disagree with me, I think charging exclusively on Tesla's dime is essentially theft or stealing electricity if you will.

Give an inch, and someone will take a mile... So I'll continue to say it...

If you can't charge at home, don't buy the car.

Jeff

Or at work, for those of us who still have full-time jobs.

Besides long-distance travel, which is mostly covered by the supercharger network, I believe it's possible to exclusively rely on workplace charging, for those who are fortunate enough to work for an employer that is progressive enough to install a bunch of charging stations.

Even though I'm able to charge at home, and still do occasionally, I mostly charge at work - where we have >1MW of solar installed, so it's nice to feel 100% "green". On weekends, if I drive more than 200 miles, I'll either charge at home, or at a supercharger on my way back from wherever I may spend the weekend (Tahoe, Napa, etc.)

I have a friend who has a P90D and is not able to charge at home at all, but she works at Google and charges there on a daily basis during the week.

Workplace charging can be as convenient as charging at home, assuming the employer has installed enough charging capacity to support all employees who own EVs.
 
Or at work, for those of us who still have full-time jobs.

Besides long-distance travel, which is mostly covered by the supercharger network, I believe it's possible to exclusively rely on workplace charging, for those who are fortunate enough to work for an employer that is progressive enough to install a bunch of charging stations.

Even though I'm able to charge at home, and still do occasionally, I mostly charge at work - where we have >1MW of solar installed, so it's nice to feel 100% "green". On weekends, if I drive more than 200 miles, I'll either charge at home, or at a supercharger on my way back from wherever I may spend the weekend (Tahoe, Napa, etc.)

I have a friend who has a P90D and is not able to charge at home at all, but she works at Google and charges there on a daily basis during the week.

Workplace charging can be as convenient as charging at home, assuming the employer has installed enough charging capacity to support all employees who own EVs.

Fair enough, so long as you're not abusing superchargers (which it certainly doesn't appear you are) than I'm good. If that means charging at work, and your workplace is cool with it, then I say go for it.

Jeff
 
Ok, I use the local super charger twice a month. Usually on weekends and usually when they are almost full. I drive a lot of miles on the weekends. I have chargers at my house, my garage and my work. But sometimes I drive 250 miles on a weekend day.

Are you saying I should not buy a Model S?
 
Ok, I use the local super charger twice a month. Usually on weekends and usually when they are almost full. I drive a lot of miles on the weekends. I have chargers at my house, my garage and my work. But sometimes I drive 250 miles on a weekend day.

Are you saying I should not buy a Model S?

Nope, you're describing something completely different than what I'm against. There is a huge difference between taking long weekend trips where the return trip causes a local stop, versus using that local stop as your exclusive charging location.

I have no issues with your usage.

Jeff
 
And that is the unfortunate difference between those interested in Tesla because they're trendy and cool, and those who subscribe to Tesla's mission of mass EV adoption.

Just because it was inevitiable doesn't make it any less disappointing...

What exactly are you getting at? There are a few different ways I could interpret your comment but I'd love to give you the opportunity to rephrase before I say anything further.

Jeff

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, but just to be clear it is not a long distance trip. It is 250 miles in a 75 mile radius.

I hear you, my position isn't targeted at your usage.

Jeff
 
You know exactly what I'm getting at.

More EVs on the road is Tesla's goal. You can figure out the rest.

Good lord, just say what you want to say instead of being all cryptic about it... Passive aggressiveness is just a waste of everyones time. Say what you want to say and move on.

Since you essentially confirmed what I assumed you meant, my reply is simple. I did not get a Tesla because they are "trendy and cool" I got one because I no longer want to be part of the problem, I want to be part of the solution. That being said, my car is a functional piece of equipment that can only "refuel" in a time efficient manner in very specific locations. I'm not interested in unnecessarily waiting because some local wasn't responsible enough to put forth a home (or work :) ) charging solution either out of their own greed or circumstances beyond their control. I will flip this back around, if you're so concerned about mass EV adoption and you want to be part of that movement, then relocate to a place that you can appropriately join the movement from rather than ask the rest of us to accommodate you.

I have seen countless posts from members of this forum who live in condos, or multi-unit dwellings if you will, that took the time and effort to get a home charging solution put in place. If they were willing to do that, why shouldn't that be the standard? I'd argue that not being willing to jump through the hoops to get charging at home, even if those hoops are very difficult, then you are purchasing the car to be "trendy and cool" and not because you want to be part of the movement towards mass EV adoption. You're essentially taking the easy way out... Yet, you have the nerve to suggest that I, and\or others, only bought this car to be "trendy and cool" instead of wanting to be part of a movement when we put the investment in (in my case a considerable one) to be able to charge at home.

All I'm asking is everyone does the same, why is that too much to ask?

Jeff
 
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Good lord, just say what you want to say instead of being all cryptic about it... Passive aggressiveness is just a waste of everyones time. Say what you want to say and move on.

Since you essentially confirmed what I assumed you meant, my reply is simple. I did not get a Tesla because they are "trendy and cool" I got one because I no longer want to be part of the problem, I want to be part of the solution. That being said, my car is a functional piece of equipment that can only "refuel" in a time efficient manner in very specific locations. I'm not interested in unnecessarily waiting because some local wasn't responsible enough to put forth a home (or work :) ) charging solution either out of their own greed or circumstances beyond their control. I will flip this back around, if you're so concerned about mass EV adoption and you want to be part of that movement, then relocate to a place that you can appropriately join the movement from rather than ask the rest of us to accommodate you.

I have seen countless posts from members of this forum who live in condos, or multi-unit dwellings if you will, that took the time and effort to get a home charging solution put in place. If they were willing to do that, why shouldn't that be the standard? I'd argue that not being willing to jump through the hoops to get charging at home, even if those hoops are very difficult, then you are purchasing the car to be "trendy and cool" and not because you want to be part of the movement towards mass EV adoption. You're essentially taking the easy way out... Yet, you have the nerve to suggest that I, and\or others, only bought this car to be "trendy and cool" instead of wanting to be part of a movement when we put the investment in (in my case a considerable one) to be able to charge at home.

All I'm asking is everyone does the same, why is that too much to ask?

Jeff

Probably because it is an unrealistic position supported by straw - at best.

Note Tesla's mission.

Note the reality that there are as many or more potential non-garaged than garaged owners in densely-populated areas.

Note that the canard of "waiting at SCs for locals" is on its face 98% improbable due to SC location and then, drilling down to just "local" SCs (defined for the sake of discourse as SCs in densely-populated areas), attempting to describe a resource constraint for which 90% of owners do not use the resource.

Sounds like you're just miffed that for a short time (relatively speaking, since technological advances* will make this a non-issue "soon"), people without garages, or a way to add a charger to their condo parking space, or people who can't charge at work, each can use SCs. The best part of your unrealistic position is that the total number of that very small subset of people described above is barely statistically significant.

Back in the day (*chuckle* up until about a year ago), there was a flat panel at Hawthorne that showed the top 10 most utilized SCs on the planet. Guess which ones they were *not*. G'head - I'll wait.

Looking ahead, I would (SWA)guess that 70% of Model 3 owners won't use SCs either. More, if the base model does not include SC access (recall the first Mustang - didn't come with a radio, because Iacocca wanted the price point to appeal to families). It will take several years for M3 production to ramp to the 41,667/month number everyone seems to fixate upon. 40% of those to the US, maybe. Think all of that through for a bit.

Net net: the SC network will have no problem handling those darned non-garaged owners either now or in the short-to-medium term. It'll probably handle livery just fine too.

So good luck with that exclusionary, elitist position that's completely contrary to Tesla's mission. Fortunately, it is as unnecessary as it is unrealistic.

* of all the solutions *currently being tested*, my favorite is the embedded roadway induction charging system over in the UK. Not that we need any more construction on the 405, and it probably won't happen for a generation if ever, but driving and charging (a sort of perpetual regen without the re) at the same time just sounds good, in a Jetsonesque kind of way.
 
I am picking up my 90D on Monday and I am currently renting an apartment that I will be leaving in May. I think I will use the L2 charge point station whenever I can but if time is short I will use the super charger. I don't have that much time to wait around an L2 that's not close to my school or my apartment. I don't think it's unreasonable to use the supercharger as long as it's empty. If someone comes in who is traveling I would happily offer my spot (assuming all the stalls are full, which actually the most I've seen is 2 teslas 1 of which being a tesla employee car)
 
Good lord, just say what you want to say instead of being all cryptic about it... Passive aggressiveness is just a waste of everyones time.

Chill and lose the pretense. People are smart enough to see through what you're trying to do.

I want to be part of the solution.

I don't buy it. The ridiculous suggestion of "just move before buying an EV" is not and idea that would be proposed by an EV enthusiast. Someone in favor of mass EV adoption would easily understand that those without the means to charge at their residence are such a small percentage of total ownership that their effect on the local supercharging problem is in the noise...and thus are not even worth registering as a complaint in related discussions, let alone getting multiple-paragraph worked up over it. An EV enthusiast, in fact, would encourage those considering taking the plunge of homeless EV charging, as that kind of path finding will pay dividends toward mass EV ownership. Just about every S/X owner in the US has a garage [and thus, a charging solution], but as real world EVs like the M3 become more affordable the number of homeless charging is going to go up. Those who want to be part of the EV solution will embrace that future.

Those who bought their Tesla as an accessory, on the other hand, would discourage it...
 
Good lord, just say what you want to say instead of being all cryptic about it... Passive aggressiveness is just a waste of everyones time. Say what you want to say and move on.

Since you essentially confirmed what I assumed you meant, my reply is simple. I did not get a Tesla because they are "trendy and cool" I got one because I no longer want to be part of the problem, I want to be part of the solution. That being said, my car is a functional piece of equipment that can only "refuel" in a time efficient manner in very specific locations. I'm not interested in unnecessarily waiting because some local wasn't responsible enough to put forth a home (or work :) ) charging solution either out of their own greed or circumstances beyond their control. I will flip this back around, if you're so concerned about mass EV adoption and you want to be part of that movement, then relocate to a place that you can appropriately join the movement from rather than ask the rest of us to accommodate you.

I have seen countless posts from members of this forum who live in condos, or multi-unit dwellings if you will, that took the time and effort to get a home charging solution put in place. If they were willing to do that, why shouldn't that be the standard? I'd argue that not being willing to jump through the hoops to get charging at home, even if those hoops are very difficult, then you are purchasing the car to be "trendy and cool" and not because you want to be part of the movement towards mass EV adoption. You're essentially taking the easy way out... Yet, you have the nerve to suggest that I, and\or others, only bought this car to be "trendy and cool" instead of wanting to be part of a movement when we put the investment in (in my case a considerable one) to be able to charge at home.

All I'm asking is everyone does the same, why is that too much to ask?

Jeff

This pretty much sums up how I feel about people using superchargers for local charging and not installing an outlet where they live. There is a big difference between can not and will not.

Some people will pull their own weight and buy their own outlet and electricity and some others will not.