Using Superchargers for Local Charging

[ecarfan]

That would be Hong Kong.
As home or office charging is not an option for many Tesla owners in Hong Kong, the SC network here (also high concentration) is purely used for local charging, as there is no long distance routes in HK itself.

Yep, I think you are right and I was wrong. I forgot about HK. And of course the nature of housing in that city is such that very few people are able to install suitable charging at their parking spot in their high rise apartment building, so of course they have to use the Superchargers or try to convince their workplace to install chargers. But their workplace is also likely a high rise with underground parking which was not designed for EV charging.

 

[bxr140]

I am with Jeff. If you can't charge at home, Tesla shouldn't sell them. Period.

And in so far as everyone-gets-an-opinion, choosing on the side of tesla exclusivity is fine.
Jeff's problem is that he thinks his exclusionary perspective is also on the side of EV adoption.

 

[pedriscoll]

As we all know Elon himself touted free supercharging for life. Personally I find it much more convenient to charge at home and only use superchargers for road trips. However I won't criticize those who can't charge at home for using the superchargers. It really is a non issue in the Midwest. I have used superchargers in Chicago, Indianapolis, Mishawaka, Lafayette, IN, Dayton, Columbus, OH, and Pittsburgh. On only one occasion was there more than one other car charging. If Tesla is able to sell 500,000 model 3's per year at some point it will be a problem then. I think making supercharging fee for use then will handle the issue. Home charging at $0.11 per kWh is affordable for anyone who can afford to buy a Tesla. For those in Condo's or apartments paying the same rate for supercharging is reasonable.

 

[byan1232]

As we all know Elon himself touted free supercharging for life. Personally I find it much more convenient to charge at home and only use superchargers for road trips. However I won't criticize those who can't charge at home for using the superchargers. It really is a non issue in the Midwest. I have used superchargers in Chicago, Indianapolis, Mishawaka, Lafayette, IN, Dayton, Columbus, OH, and Pittsburgh. On only one occasion was there more than one other car charging. If Tesla is able to sell 500,000 model 3's per year at some point it will be a problem then. I think making supercharging fee for use then will handle the issue. Home charging at $0.11 per kWh is affordable for anyone who can afford to buy a Tesla. For those in Condo's or apartments paying the same rate for supercharging is reasonable.

Completely agree with this!

 

[grichard]

And of course the nature of housing in (Hong Kong) is such that very few people are able to install suitable charging at their parking spot in their high rise apartment building, so of course they have to use the Superchargers or try to convince their workplace to install chargers.

Few HK residents commute to work by car at all...

 

[chriSharek]

As we all know Elon himself touted free supercharging for life. Personally I find it much more convenient to charge at home and only use superchargers for road trips. However I won't criticize those who can't charge at home for using the superchargers. It really is a non issue in the Midwest. I have used superchargers in Chicago, Indianapolis, Mishawaka, Lafayette, IN, Dayton, Columbus, OH, and Pittsburgh. On only one occasion was there more than one other car charging. If Tesla is able to sell 500,000 model 3's per year at some point it will be a problem then. I think making supercharging fee for use then will handle the issue. Home charging at $0.11 per kWh is affordable for anyone who can afford to buy a Tesla. For those in Condo's or apartments paying the same rate for supercharging is reasonable.

You won't criticize those who can't charge at home - UNTIL YOU HAVE TO WAIT AT AN SC! Can't we see the forest for the trees here? Once we have tens of thousands of Teslas rolling off the line AND other car manufacturers (God forbid) paying Tesla to use their SC network, there will be a wait! If we can, NOW, curb some of the use by politely asking the locals to charge at home, we should encourage that behavior NOW so it doesn't become a bad habit down the road.

There has to be a way for everyone to charge at home. We all have electricity at home - it's just the matter of working through your HOA or condo or apartment complex to figure it out. Yes, it might take more effort if you are not a homeowner, but if you want to be part of the rEVoloution, you're going to have to make an effort to do so.

 

[scaesare]

I can't find it at the moment (I think it was dug up for one of the other "acceptable supercharger use" megathreads), but folks here DO realize that either Elon or JB actually talked about installing superchaargers in urban area for those who can't reasonably charge at home, right?

That would seem to be within their intent, so it's rather pointless to argue about that aspect here. It's those doing so to be cheap that we should be arguing about (or against).

 

[ecarfan]

You won't criticize those who can't charge at home - UNTIL YOU HAVE TO WAIT AT AN SC! Can't we see the forest for the trees here? Once we have tens of thousands of Teslas rolling off the line AND other car manufacturers (God forbid) paying Tesla to use their SC network, there will be a wait!

I can see the forest, and the trees. You are assuming that the Supercharger network will not grow proportionately as the number of EVs using it (from any manufacturer, not just Tesla) grows.
In the past few years the Supercharger network capacity has more than doubled! It is not expensive to build. It's a small fraction of Tesla's annual operating budget. As Tesla sells more cars, more chargers are built. If any other car manufacturer agrees to Tesla's terms and joins the network there will be more money to invest in it for that manufacturer and more chargers will be built.
It's really quite simple. More EVs built, more revenue, more money to build out the network, problem solved.

 

[chriSharek]

I can see the forest, and the trees. You are assuming that the Supercharger network will not grow proportionately as the number of EVs (from any manufacturer, not just Tesla) grows.
In the past few years the Supercharger network capacity has more than doubled! It is not expensive to build. It's a small fraction of Tesla's annual operating budget. As Tesla sells more cars, more chargers are built. If any other car manufacturer agrees to Tesla's terms and joins the network there will be more money to invest in it for that manufacturer and more chargers will be built.
It's really quite simple. More EVs built, more revenue, more money to build out the network, problem solved.

I respectfully disagree. The SC network has grown tremendously in its first 2 years of existence - as you point out - no question about that. But, it clearly can't continue on the same pace. The SCs are orders of magnitude more expensive than L2s or even the DC fast chargers - simply due to the cost of the land needed - let alone the switchgear and equipment.

I'll tell you what, check out Tesla's supercharger webpage and answer me this - why do they not show the expansion plans for 2017? I'd venture to guess they are getting close to being "done" filling in the gaps. Florida is covered completely every 200 miles. Why build more - only for the density and locals? I think not.

 

[TexasEV]

The SCs are orders of magnitude more expensive than L2s or even the DC fast chargers - simply due to the cost of the land needed - let alone the switchgear and equipment.

Tesla doesn't pay for the land, other than a token rent at some locations.

 

[swegman]

Comments have been made that there are rarely more than one car charging at a location. This is true for most, but not all locations. In October 2015, I was in the West Palm Beach area and had to charge at the supercharger there, which is located at the service center. Every single charger was in use by people with FL license plates, so I had to wait to charge, which put me behind schedule with a place I was supposed to go to. There was even one guy that had his rear hatch open and was sitting on the lip playing a guitar. I spoke to him and he told me that he chargers there several times a week rather than charge at home. Once I was able to plug in (about 20 minutes later), I went into the service center to wait for the car to charge (I only needed a 15 minute charge to get to my destination) and spoke with the Tesla personnel. They told me that this particular location is used very very heavily by locals who do not want to charge their cars at home. That is just not right. That is abusing a perk. Its one thing for a person on a road trip to have to wait up to 1 hr (depending on the amount of charge needed) for the car to charge. Its another thing to have to wait to plug in the car to charge because other owners are not willing to charge their cars at their homes.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

Wow. Ten pages of opinions about proper use of Superchargers. Well, it is an Internet forum!

All I've gathered here is that everyone wants the same thing, an open space at a Supercharger when they show up. I think the same thing when I buy gas for my ice car, I just want a convenient open pump. That's human nature. Funny though, is that I have never thought about who is more deserving of a pump. Ever.

I don't know any of these people, where they live, what they do, or their life situation. All I know is that they got to the pump before me. I have to wait. I suck it up. I'm not special, nor do I deserve it more or less than any one else.

I think for the Tesla community at large, it would do us all good to judge less. If nothing else it may lower the blood pressure of some here.

 

[ecarfan]

I respectfully disagree. The SC network has grown tremendously in its first 2 years of existence - as you point out - no question about that. But, it clearly can't continue on the same pace. The SCs are orders of magnitude more expensive than L2s or even the DC fast chargers - simply due to the cost of the land needed - let alone the switchgear and equipment.

I'll tell you what, check out Tesla's supercharger webpage and answer me this - why do they not show the expansion plans for 2017? I'd venture to guess they are getting close to being "done" filling in the gaps. Florida is covered completely every 200 miles. Why build more - only for the density and locals? I think not.

Reasonable estimates of the cost of building an SC site with 8-10 charging spots are $150,000 - $250,000 (land is not purchased, it's leased or rented and the cost of that is low). The build cost and ongoing electricity costs are funded by selling cars. Tesla has stated this many times. Vehicle revenue funds charging network growth. No matter how many cars Tesla sells there is money available to build out the network to match usage.
You say "Why build more?" And I agree with your answer: for density and for locals. Tesla will certainly build more, closer together, and expand existing sites.
In my opinion, the reason Tesla does not show a "2017" map of Superchargers at this time is because their is no compelling reason to do so from a marketing point of view. The 2016 map shows an extensive charging network in the countries that Tesla sells in. A potential customer looking at that map is very likely to see Superchargers located along routes they might travel on. Yes, there are gaps, but that map shows that most (not all) major routes have been covered.
The fact that currently Tesla does not show a 2017 map certainly does not mean that there will not be a 2017 map with lots of new locations! Of course there will be a 2017 map and it will be shown on the Tesla website later this year, likely in a few months.
We can agree to disagree, and wait a few months to see what happens. [emoji3]

 

[scaesare]

Wow. Ten pages of opinions about proper use of Superchargers. Well, it is an Internet forum!

All I've gathered here is that everyone wants the same thing, an open space at a Supercharger when they show up. I think the same thing when I buy gas for my ice car, I just want a convenient open pump. That's human nature.

The differences, of course, being:

1) Everybody in an ICE _HAS_ to fuel at a gas station. Not he case with EV's

2) Tesla owners have no other option for fast refueling when on road trips, whereas local "abusers" do

I think for the Tesla community at large, it would do us all good to judge less. If nothing else it may lower the blood pressure of some here.

On the contrary, I think the intent of Tesla is clear, and lacking any other remedy, pressure to not act like a jerk may be all we ultimately have for now (not that it may do much good).

 

[KJD]

Reasonable estimates of the cost of building an SC site with 8-10 charging spots are $150,000 - $250,000 (land is not purchased, it's leased or rented and the cost of that is low). The build cost and ongoing electricity costs are funded by selling cars. Tesla has stated this many times. Vehicle revenue funds charging network growth. No matter how many cars Tesla sells there is money available to build out the network to match usage.

According to this article your numbers a a little bit low.
Net Book Value Of Tesla Supercharger Network Is $152.4 Million

The net book value of the Supercharger network was reported in the past three quarters and as of September 30, 2015 stood at $154.4 million.
At 536 locations, that translates to approximately $284,000 per location (or less than $50,000 per spot). Those are high power stations – the smallest have two spots sharing 120 kW, while the largest have 10+ spots and 500+ kW of combined peak power.

Now as for your statement

that map shows that most (not all) major routes have been covered.

I would agree that coverage in CA NV and UT is pretty dang good and it will be even better as I-15 fills in. There are however large areas of the country that are not covered, for example how about I-10? Not so good down there.

 

[chriSharek]

Wow. Ten pages of opinions about proper use of Superchargers. Well, it is an Internet forum!

All I've gathered here is that everyone wants the same thing, an open space at a Supercharger when they show up. I think the same thing when I buy gas for my ice car, I just want a convenient open pump. That's human nature. Funny though, is that I have never thought about who is more deserving of a pump. Ever.

I don't know any of these people, where they live, what they do, or their life situation. All I know is that they got to the pump before me. I have to wait. I suck it up. I'm not special, nor do I deserve it more or less than any one else.

I think for the Tesla community at large, it would do us all good to judge less. If nothing else it may lower the blood pressure of some here.

This would be a fine attitude to take, but imagine if there were only one brand of gas station and each was spaced every 3/4 of a tankful of gas away from one another.

Now, would you be a little more concerned why these folks aren't fueling at home if they could?

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

This would be a fine attitude to take, but imagine if there were only one brand of gas station and each was spaced every 3/4 of a tankful of gas away from one another.

Now, would you be a little more concerned why these folks aren't fueling at home if they could?

Respectfully, Tesla owners can charge at thousands of other places besides Superchargers. So there are plenty of options, you just want the free one, and you want it available to you without a wait, like everyone else.

If I arrive at a Supercharger station and all stalls are filled, I only know that the people there must need to charge their cars. I don't know their life situation, so I'm not going to judge them. Because where does it stop? Maybe they should have gotten an 85 instead of a 60? Or didn't they calculate the 90% range before they purchased and also realized that after 30,000 miles of driving that you could only go 77% as far as when it was new so you should have waited for the 100 to come out. It's never ending.

Several pages back in this thread I read that someone was upset because all they saw were Florida plates at a Supercharger in Florida. Uh, so what. Florida is a long state!

I can honestly see a Tesla owner charging everyday at home, and every day at a Supercharger because their schedule demands it. My point about posting in the first place, was to get people out of their own judgmental heads. Just because someone's only has a 5 mile commute doesn't mean that everyone else does. In Southern California, you can drive on 9 different freeways and go 200 miles and honestly say you didn't go more than 30 miles from home. But that's still anecdotal.

Tesla has the data and if they want to nag those they consider abusers, it's up, to them. The last thing the community needs is a Supercharger vigilante (even though I like the sound of that).

Oh, and I've used Superchargers exactly 4 times since buying the car. The first time was when I was a new owner and just needed to see that it worked. The second time I was in Hawthorne and couldn't resist visiting Tesla and Space X, and couldn't resist plugging into the mother ship. The third and fourth time was in Cabazon going to and from Joshua Tree. So I am not an evil Supercharger Abuser. In none of those cases were all the slots filled.

 

[scaesare]

Respectfully, Tesla owners can charge at thousands of other places besides Superchargers. So there are plenty of options, you just want the free one, and you want it available to you without a wait, like everyone else.

Not that enables the "fast refueling" time frames needed for a typical road trip.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

Not that enables the "fast refueling" time frames needed for a typical road trip.

I don't know what a typical road trip is. I imagine that it is different for everyone. For me it used to be driving between Los Angeles and Denver twice a month in an ice car. 970 miles each way, for others it might be Orlando to Key West, who knows and it doesn't matter.

At some point if Tesla succeeds, there will be hundreds of thousands of Teslas and more Superchargers. Free or not, at some point everyone will have to wait to charge their car. I imagine if there are hundreds of thousands of Teslas, then there will also be hundreds of thousands of other EVs and capitalism and the market will respond with "Tesla" blessed third party for pay charging options.

Realisticly maybe Tesla will only allow free charging for original owners, then tiered options for second owners etc., and different options for the Model 3. Maybe the first 100 fill ups are free and then .17 cents a KW thereafter. Again, who knows. They could implement time of use tiered pricing, surge pricing etc. There is also no reason that charging stations couldn't be listed on the map based on price per KW and availability.

Charging options are wide open, and I'd rather spend my time complaining about tire/road noise. Now that's an issue.

 

[Brad_SC]

I just wanted the 100th post in this thread.
----

-If you can charge at home, you should.
-FEW people (in the USA) have a legitimate reason not to charge at their own home. If you are having one of those days where you have to drive 200+ miles around town (I cannot imagine why), then SuperCharge AS NEEDED.
-If you don't have electricity installed at home, you should consider getting it, I love my electrically powered Fridge and Blender. But hey, once you have electricity at home, buy an EV. Then you can charge your own car on your own dime.

-Don't expect your boss to pay for your charging.
-Don't complain because YOUR CHOICE of housing doesn't accommodate EV charging.

-Home charging is the way of the future for EV owners daily mileage charging. However...
-The SuperCharger network will continue to grow with every year.
-Gas stations will begin to add more and more EV Chargers.
-Interstate Rest Areas will start to add EV Chargers.