Utah Supercharger Locations (location speculation, discussion)

[Denarius]

There is some good info in the First Colorado Supercharger location confirmed, starting with post #37. I thought we should start a separate thread for Utah Super Charger locations.

I asked Dan at the Denver service center about Supercharger status and he told me there's still some holdup with Excel permitting for Silverthorne; but it's oh-so-close. He expected there would be some effort on TM's part to reach out to Colorado owners when the openings have been scheduled for the Glenwood and Silverthorne Superchargers.

Dan also mentioned that Tesla just got approval from Utah authorities to site Superchargers in Moab and a second location along I-15, he didn't know where. The cynic in me says, Now comes the hard part: site negotiations and permitting.

There is some good discussion following in the thread. Green River or a location right along I-70 makes the most sense. Hopefully Cover Fort is the second location.

 

[Cottonwood]

Because I am one of the rabble rousers over there on the Colorado, I decided to repost my last speculation here:

Moab . . . Moab . . (salivating)!!

We are being spoiled rotten already with Silverthorne & Glenwood Springs, both being in wonderful settings. Maybe Green River would be the better choice here as it would aid the 'westward flow' along I-70 and Moab visitors can easily backtrack a bit to Green River for charges. Tiny desert town would make a nice half-hour SC stop. Moab itself is tight for space, resources & too much going on already. GR: what Barstow used to be like in the old days.
--

First of all, if you look at Supercharger locations on the Tesla Motors Supercharger Page with the slider set at Winter 2013, then the route from Las Vegas to Glenwood Springs is probably the most empty, most remote of the entire Supercharger network. Working north from Vegas, St George, UT is an obvious location and is just where there is a dot on the Supercharger map. North from there, the next obvious location is at the intersection of I-15 and I-70, Fort Cove, UT. This is where it looks like there is another dot on the Tesla map, there are on and off ramps to both I-15 and I-70 here, and its 130 miles from St George, a perfect distance.

Given all of these assumptions, the question is where to put the Supercharger in between Glenwood Springs, CO and Fort Cove, UT. Take a look at Glenwood Springs to Fort Cove - Google Maps. You can change the middle Supercharger location to your choice. Look at the following distance data and elevation data:

Glenwood to Green River - 186 miles
Green River to Fort Cove - 162 miles

Glenwood to Crescent Junction - 166 miles
Crescent Junction to Fort Cove - 182 miles

Glenwood to Moab - 197 miles
Moab to Fort Cove - 213 miles

Green River - 4,200'
Crescent Junction - 5,100'
Fort Cove - 6000'
Moab - 4,000'
Glenwood - 7,000'​

Moab is 21 miles off of I-70. That is a long way from the interstate. Also, it makes the distances to and from Fort Cove and Glenwood large enough that I would want a "Range" charge, greatly reducing the utility of the Supercharger. If you use my rule of thumb that 1,000' vertical equals 6 rated miles, then the elevation corrected distance from Moab to Fort Cove is 225 miles!

Elevation corrected, the distance from Green River to Glenwood is 206 miles and from Crescent Junction to Fort Cove is 188 miles. Although Crescent Junction is a pretty lonely location, without much to do, it is the best distance choice, and given that it is the I-70 exit for Moab, maybe Crescent Junction is in reality what the Tesla folks are calling "Moab."

If I were picking the Supercharger site in SE Utah, I would want to minimize the worst-case, elevation-corrected distance; that means Crescent Junction, UT (I-70 and US-191; I-70, exit 182) is the place!

As SteveZZZ said, when Silverthorne and Glenwood are done, its time for a road trip to Moab to do some fall mountain biking. There are plenty of RV parks in Moab to do a range charge for the drive back to Glenwood. Maybe on that trip, we can get some actual pictures!

 

[Denarius]

Moab is definitely too far off course, I think you are right that it would have to be Cresent Junction, I don't really remember any services are right off that exit though. Green River makes more sense from a services standpoint.

 

[BryanW]

Moab is definitely too far off course, I think you are right that it would have to be Cresent Junction, I don't really remember any services are right off that exit though. Green River makes more sense from a services standpoint.

I agree with Denarius.

 

[Denarius]

Tesla's golden spike: Coast to coast, no gas http://www.cnbc.com/id/101044273?__...yahoo&doc=101044273|Tesla's+golden+connector:


You guys w Moab on your wish list should definitely look at this. From the supercharger rollout thread.
if that map is for real, there are some major changes in the SC plan from what we have seen so far.

Quoted from the Colorado thread. If the map in the article is accurate Elon may be bypassing I15 in Utah and coming up through Moab. I hope it isn't true!

 

[emupilot]

Moab is definitely too far off course, I think you are right that it would have to be Cresent Junction, I don't really remember any services are right off that exit though. Green River makes more sense from a services standpoint.

The idea of supercharging is that you can get a bite to eat and go to the bathroom while you charge. There would have to be one in Green River since there's no significant services anywhere else in the area. Cove Fort is geographically convenient, but I don't think there is more than a gas station there. Convient spacing would be Green River to Richfield (123 miles), Richfield to Cedar City (115 miles), and Cedar City to Mesquite NV (90 miles).

 

[Trnsl8r]

Moab is definitely too far off course, I think you are right that it would have to be Cresent Junction, I don't really remember any services are right off that exit though. Green River makes more sense from a services standpoint.

I think they are probably doing a balancing act of creating a transcontinental path and putting up superchargers in locations where there are Model S owners. The latter probably conflicts with making the most efficient route for the former and compromises have to be made. That's my speculation...

 

[AudubonB]

Why, Trnsl8r, would or should there be any consideration given to where owners live? That's what garage outlets are for. Everything I have read and heard from TM - rather than from this forum - is that SCs are to assist travel. Now, I do have a very large beef about it being heavily weighted for transcontinental - in its true sense - travel, as if getting to and from the East and West coasts is the only important kind of journey one can make; rather, for me it is the Moabs and Dakota Badlands and Louisiana bayous and AZ-Mex borderland deserts and North Cascades that is where travel should take one.....

 

[Denarius]

I swung by Cove Fort today on my way home from St George, didn't see any sign of supercharger construction. I didn't expect to find anything yet, but I figured I'd drive through and have a look anyway.

 

[BryanW]

I have outlined my opinion on Utah superchargers in another thread, complete with distance numbers. In brief, there are 3 main roads through the middle part of Utah that make a triangle for almost all of the traffic that passes through the southern half of the state. Pull up Google maps and zoom in on this part of Utah, and you will see that I-15, I-70, and Rt 6 make almost an equilateral triangle. Placing a supercharger at each of the points of the triangle is just more efficient.

If you are driving east-west through Utah, charging at Cove Fort and Greenriver makes sense. Taking a detour to Moab (31 miles each way from I-70 down to Moab) just doesn't make sense. Also, while true that Richfield has more services than Cove Fort, it only serves the East/West routes, not North/South along I-15. Place it at Cove Fort, and both routes are covered. Covering the points of the triangle, plus St. George covers all major cross state traffic through the southern half of Utah. Placing them anywhere else will increase inefficiencies, detours, and annoyance, and crossing this rather barren are (services-wise, it is beautiful country) really does require the speed of superchargers.

 

[MikeL]

I'm really wondering about this map Tesla's golden spike: Coast to coast, no gas
Who is the source? It shows SCs at Blanding, Moab, AND Green River AND Grand Junction. The more the merrier, I say, but we have seen NONE of those, so far in ANY SC announcement/plan. Also, since the article is nominally about connecting the coasts for Elon's upcoming trip, we should wonder about the leg shown from Flagstaff to Blanding. 248 miles, lots of hill climbs. ??

edit: oops, Green River has been on the plans from TM. Another reason the map is odd. The route skips it! Moab to Grand Junction, which is a straighter shot. Still need one in Green River tho for I-70
E-W travel, obviously.

 

[Denarius]

With this updated planned route, I'm starting to get worried that we won't see our I-15 superchargers for a while.

 

[BryanW]

But that map with super chargers in those locations just doesn't make any sense for the initial buildout...
Plus, it contradicts this map for the "Winter 2013" superchargers, which is still the official map on Tesla's website

 

[Cottonwood]

But that map with super chargers in those locations just doesn't make any sense for the initial buildout...
Plus, it contradicts this map for the "Winter 2013" superchargers, which is still the official map on Tesla's website.

From what I have seen, this is a guideline map of what will probably happen on Tesla's Official Web site.

I think the Utah Superchargers on the I-70/I-15 path will happen, but the Holbrook, AZ and Farmington, NM announcements are pretty clear proof that the priority for the Elon trip is to get Superchargers aimed at the 4-Corners area. The real guessing game is how SoCal gets connected to those two sites in Holbrook, AZ and Farmington, NM, and then how they get connected back the Superchargers that are done in Colorado. Maybe there is a path north through Eastern Utah; Moab is a fun place... :wink:

 

[BryanW]

From what I have seen, this is a guideline map of what will probably happen on Tesla's Official Web site.

I think the Utah Superchargers on the I-70/I-15 path will happen, but the Holbrook, AZ and Farmington, NM announcements are pretty clear proof that the priority for the Elon trip is to get Superchargers aimed at the 4-Corners area. The real guessing game is how SoCal gets connected to those two sites in Holbrook, AZ and Farmington, NM, and then how they get connected back the Superchargers that are done in Colorado. Maybe there is a path north through Eastern Utah; Moab is a fun place... :wink:

Sure, Moab is a fun place, so is Blanding.

However, if they prioritize the superchargers for "Elon's trip" because that is his preferred route to drive rather than prioritizing the superchargers for the usefulness of routes more people drive, then I believe his trip will look much more like a big publicity stunt rather than a demonstration of a useful cross country supercharging network.

 

[Cottonwood]

Sure, Moab is a fun place, so is Blanding.

However, if they prioritize the superchargers for "Elon's trip" because that is his preferred route to drive rather than prioritizing the superchargers for the usefulness of routes more people drive, then I believe his trip will look much more like a big publicity stunt rather than a demonstration of a useful cross country supercharging network.

I tend to agree with you, but the evidence is otherwise.

Why would the first E-W Cross-country route take the Mt Rushmore detour up to I-90. The most logical path east from Denver is I-76 to I-80 to Chicago. Right now, we are seeing announcements of Holbrook, AZ, Farmington, NM, Rapid City, SD, and Mitchell, SD. These sites are clearly going in to support the Elon trip. Farmington is really far down on the list of places to put Superchargers to supports the hoards of MSs on the move......unless you want to pass through the 4-Corners area.

I think that the I-15/I-70 corridor will be completed soon, but after the Elon route is finished... :frown:

 

[BryanW]

Cottonwood,

Don't get me wrong, I really want a supercharger in Moab, and am of the "more superchargers the better" school. It just seems odd to me to build out a less used route before the major used routes.

Maybe Tesla will surprise us and open both routes in rapid succession, particularly as Elon's trip will be over spring break, and the I-70/I-15 chargers are on the "winter" map which will end around spring break. That would be the best of both worlds!

 

[Denarius]

Moab is a great destination, but I agree more people would be served by covering main routes first.

 

[AudubonB]

Let me play the devil's advocate here.

Interstates 70 & 80 are indeed the nation's pre-eminent E-W arteries*. There is no doubt about that. HOWEVER....their primary long-distance (>1,500 miles) users are semi-tractors. MOST people who travel coast to coast do so by airplane. MANY and perhaps most people who elect to drive coast to coast - or otherwise make a 2,000+ mile auto trip - are doing so at least in part for the enjoyment of tourist destinations such as our national parks, and most definitely are not using those gawdawful two arteries for any longer than they absolutely have to.

I will go farther than that and say furthermore, any infrastructure (read: superchargers) that enhance the features of the prior paragraph, the better.

*Yes, I am aware of where I-70's western terminus is. Don't be pedantic, for all love.

 

[Denarius]

Let me play the devil's advocate here.

Interstates 70 & 80 are indeed the nation's pre-eminent E-W arteries*. There is no doubt about that. HOWEVER....their primary long-distance (>1,500 miles) users are semi-tractors. MOST people who travel coast to coast do so by airplane. MANY and perhaps most people who elect to drive coast to coast - or otherwise make a 2,000+ mile auto trip - are doing so at least in part for the enjoyment of tourist destinations such as our national parks, and most definitely are not using those gawdawful two arteries for any longer than they absolutely have to.

I will go farther than that and say furthermore, any infrastructure (read: superchargers) that enhance the features of the prior paragraph, the better.

*Yes, I am aware of where I-70's western terminus is. Don't be pedantic, for all love.

I've driven across the country twice. Both times the majority of my driving was on I-70 or I-80. I did leave them to visit destinations but to suggest those arteries should get superchargers behind somewhere someone "might" want to visit on their journey sounds silly to me.