Utter Frustration (National PEM Shortage)

[Habious]

I've hesitated posting this but, I don't have anywhere else to vent (My GF is sick of hearing about it).

My Roadster was picked up on July 6th. Was told the battery was toast and I needed a new one.

A new one was ordered, and shipped in. The local Service Center (Service Center #1) didn't have the "tools" to replace the battery, so the battery and the car were shipped to another Service Center (Service Center #2).

Service Center #2 has replaced the battery, but discovered that the PEM (that Service Center #1 replaced maybe 5 months ago) is dead...yet again.

So, new PEM has been ordered and I've waited...and waited...and waited.

Tesla (Service Center #1 + Service Center #2) have now had my car for almost 3 months. There appears to be NO end in sight.

I was just told today, in the latest update, that "there are 17 PEMs, total, in the country...and 56 are needed".

For those of you playing our home game and keeping score - this will be battery number THREE for my car...and PEM number FOUR (in less than 2 years of ownership, and about 16K total vehicle miles).

 

[MileHighMotoring]

Ugh, so sorry to read this. I've had more than my share of troubles with both of my cars and there's nothing we can do in this situation. We can't source parts ourselves, and we can't go somewhere else. I'm not sure what the solution is. You have my support and my empathy. If it makes you feel any better this sort of thing happens to new owners too (with Models S and X).

 

[Msjulie]

I've wondered what it would take to replace some components in our cars; some things are obvious and somewhat straight forward even if somewhat unique our cars (example is the current disk brake rotor group buy)

I wonder what it takes to create a new PEM with more modern parts - not directly relevant but I'm watching the electric car conversion business appear to be growing quite well with folks talking old VW, Porsche and similar cars and swapping out engines, fuel systems etc for electric powerplants...

 

[tvuolo]

Didn't the Drive eO guys replace the stock PEM and ESS with highly modified versions? Since they no longer use the Tesla Roadster platform, maybe we can get them to open source theirs? Does anyone have a friend or a contact there? Drive eO Returns to Pikes Peak with Bespoke Tesla Roadster – Drive eO

 

[sethr]

So sorry to hear this! In Orwell's words, double plus ungood! I think this kind of news makes everyone nervous about the future, as well. Hope you get yours back soon.

 

[ecarfan]

I was just told today, in the latest update, that "there are 17 PEMs, total, in the country...and 56 are needed".

Was any additional comment made, such as "More PEMs are being built right now..."?

If those numbers are correct, that is a severe mismatch between demand and supply.

 

[gregd]

Ouch! Did they tell you what specifically was "toasted" in your PEM? Was it related to the initial battery problem?

I think part of the problem is that the car has relatively few (but large) parts, and the "repair" strategy is to swap these huge parts when even the smallest thing is wrong (or suspected to be wrong). Insufficiently granular "Field Replaceable Unit" strategy.

I'm on my second PEM, the first one having developed a bad PEM Fan connector a bit over a year ago. Recalling a recent thread, that connector is on an easily swapped sub-assembly, which to me should have been the proper item (FRU) to swap. The only plus side is that I didn't have to pay for the whole thing (service center made a deal with the factory for a refurbished one), but that certainly didn't help with the thin repair parts inventory situation (sorry!).

Perhaps some of the techs that are out back building 3.0 batteries should take a break from that, and get the spare parts pipeline situation corrected? Just a thought...

 

[wiztecy]

I wouldn't worry too much, they do, can and will get rebuilt. With that, curious if that quoted number were brand new PEMS and not refurbished PEMS.

 

[Habious]

I wonder what it takes to create a new PEM with more modern parts...

I think a big part of the problem with getting someone to do this is you have to get someone willing to spend all of the R&D time and effort into reverse-engineering the PEM. As of right now, Tesla is NOT releasing any kind of service info. As far as I know, you can't get schematics, block diagrams, etc. for the Roadster drivetrain system.

ANYTHING is possible...if you throw enough money at it. The Drive eO guys had a budget to do all of this, with a specific goal in mind. Is there any money in a third-party company going through all of this effort...to sell 250 units? I just don't know.

There is a company (that I won't name) that is trying to get in the business of doing third-part PEM repairs but, from what I've seen of their incredibly shady business practices, I would push my Roadster off a cliff and claim the insurance before I'd even think about letting them get anywhere near my car.

Was any additional comment made, such as "More PEMs are being built right now..."?

If those numbers are correct, that is a severe mismatch between demand and supply.

I agree, it's very much a supply versus demand problem. And no, I got no further information other than what I quoted. But, I was talking to "some guy" at a local Service Center; not a high-level company representative at corporate headquarters.

Ouch! Did they tell you what specifically was "toasted" in your PEM? Was it related to the initial battery problem?

No, they didn't. Just that it was toast and needed to be replaced.

I think part of the problem is that the car has relatively few (but large) parts, and the "repair" strategy is to swap these huge parts when even the smallest thing is wrong (or suspected to be wrong). Insufficiently granular "Field Replaceable Unit" strategy.
.

Agreed. It's my understanding that they don't even open these up. If there's a blown fuse, they replace the ENTIRE module.

I wouldn't worry too much, they do, can and will get rebuilt. With that, curious if that quoted number were brand new PEMS and not refurbished PEMS.

The LAST time they replaced my PEM (~5 months ago), I was told "there are no new PEMS. There are only refurbished PEMS." Again, though, this wasn't the corporate manager in charge of Roadster supply parts chain; it was "some guy" at the local Service Center.

 

[MileHighMotoring]

I heard only refurbs as well.

 

[GSP]

Some failed PEMs may be repairable. There is a guy in Europe that repaired his PEM that was damaged in an accident. He posted here at TMC about how he restored his car.

GSP

 

[ecarfan]

There is a company (that I won't name) that is trying to get in the business of doing third-part PEM repairs but, from what I've seen of their incredibly shady business practices, I would push my Roadster off a cliff and claim the insurance before I'd even think about letting them get anywhere near my car.

Yep, I know who you are referring to and agree with your assessment.

Agreed. It's my understanding that they don't even open these up. If there's a blown fuse, they replace the ENTIRE module.

Early this year the two main fuses in my PEM blew and had to be replaced. My understanding was that they opened up my PEM and replaced them. I was charged about $1,000. My Roadster was at the Service Center for two days.

 

[dpeilow]

I find it surprising that some of these PEM repairs look eminently doable and yet people aren't doing them...what gives?

And yes we've reached out to the Latvian guys that did Pikes Peak and await an answer.

 

[wiztecy]

I find it surprising that some of these PEM repairs look eminently doable and yet people aren't doing them...what gives?

And yes we've reached out to the Latvian guys that did Pikes Peak and await an answer.

I take it that the majority don't have the experience to do the repair themselves and also to risk doing it wrong and possibly taking out the ESS. Even for replacing simple fan connectors, a good majority most likely never replaced a connector or worked with a soldering gun.

I think about the same thing with the brakes of the Roadster and the custom rotor brake upgrade. That when this second run is done only 50-60 people (Roadsters) out of 2500 have upgraded their brakes to what's really needed. Its surprising but then its not when you think about it. I grew up with fast things, dirt bikes, rice rocket motorcycles, cars and worked on cars / motorcycles since I was 10 under supervision of my dad in the beginning who was an Engineer. I'd ask him questions on why things would break and how to make them better. I then understood what makes things fast, how to make them faster but also what makes them stop in the same manner so that I can return home safe and in one piece. So seeing such horrible performance of the Roadster's braking to me was something that needed to be addressed and fast so I wouldn't crash it due to a under-performing system and also that others and I don't get hurt. due to its flaw. Then I hear people say, ohh, $1600 is too much I can buy EBC rotors for a couple hundred.... To me its like, what? You're driving a car that cost $120,000-145k, you paid anywhere from $50k-100k used for it if you didn't buy it new, and you're complaining about something so silly that really doesn't compare at all in performance with each other. Crazy. Then one day they might find that somebody stopped in front of them and discover first hand how bad the Roadster cannot stop, especially panic stops. End story is that any damage to a Roadster easily will start out at $5,000 and go up over $35k rather fast. Not only that parts are very limited for the car. So why not buy a cheap $1600 insurance plan and upgrade your braking system? Everybody is different I guess on their rational, but its a no-brainer when I see it, but I grew up with an Engineer so my perception on things are a little different.

Anyways, that's my theory on why people don't do those repairs. Many people don't have enough knowledge on doing their own brake pad swap, so no way would that same person be messing around with a PEM and rightfully so in my opinion.

Also Marco was the one in Germany I believe who resurrected his PEM from a crashed Roadster he purchased in the US.

 

[hcsharp]

Early this year the two main fuses in my PEM blew and had to be replaced. My understanding was that they opened up my PEM and replaced them. I was charged about $1,000. My Roadster was at the Service Center for two days.

The two main fuses are not really inside the PEM. Well, OK, they are but they're under the small access panel and they're designed to be replaced in the field. They would never replace your PEM just for those fuses because the small access cover has to come off anyway to remove the PEM. Once the small cover is open it's a 5 minute job to replace the fuses. Habious is talking about the smaller fuses that are inside the main body of the PEM.

 

[ecarfan]

Henry, thanks for clarifying!

Habious, my apologies. I was never questioning your statements, simply relaying my experience, which I now realize I described inaccurately.

 

[ML Auto]

The two main fuses are not really inside the PEM. Well, OK, they are but they're under the small access panel and they're designed to be replaced in the field. They would never replace your PEM just for those fuses because the small access cover has to come off anyway to remove the PEM. Once the small cover is open it's a 5 minute job to replace the fuses. Habious is talking about the smaller fuses that are inside the main body of the PEM.

I wouldn't call them "main" fuses. While they are the largest at 150 amps, they only fuse the charging port, not anything inside the PEM. And while they only take 5 minutes to replace, the internal ones only take around 10 minutes. $1000 to change those $10 fuses is a big reminder of how Tesla will have to change if they expect to survive in the lower cost Model 3 market.

 

[wycolo]

Having a physical insult to your PEM is actually a gift of sorts; it points out exactly those parts and connections that you have to test and replace. Much easier than sitting down to a PEM on a bench with red tag: "Bad". Still, kudos and respect to them that have 'fixed their own'!
--

 

[dpeilow]

If Tesla is charging $1000 to replace fuses, no matter which, then it gives the lie to the claim that they are not looking to make (excessive) money on the servicing. It just shows that the self-ownership model for dealerships is far from looking after the interest of the customers.

 

[ecarfan]

If Tesla is charging $1000 to replace fuses, no matter which, then it gives the lie to the claim that they are not looking to make (excessive) money on the servicing. It just shows that the self-ownership model for dealerships is far from looking after the interest of the customers.

When I had the two fuses replaced that I mentioned just upthread, 90% of the cost was parts, only a small fraction was labor. Some have said on TMC that the fuses in question should be less than $100 or so. Others dispute that. I have no way of knowing who is correct.